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Thread: Promotions earned in the past are ignored ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Post Promotions earned in the past are ignored ?

    Dear friends,

    For grant of MACPS in the merged grades, the following line may please be clarified.

    " PROMOTIONS EARNED IN THE PAST ARE IGNORED FOR GRANT OF MACPS"

    Seniors members please give your valuable suggestions.

    Anthony.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear friends,

    I doubt, why no one want to share what does the "PAST refer to. If it is scrutinised, it might pave way for an increment for the promotees who were promoted in the merged grades after 01/01/2006 and did not get MACPS.

    Anthony

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    Senior Member jitendraacr is on a distinguished road
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    Dear friend
    PAST simply means promotions earned in merged scale after 1/1/06 but before 1/9/2008.
    Jitendra

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    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri.Jitendar,

    According to me, the promotions earned in the past means, those promotions earned before 01/01/2006.
    Kindly have look on the link below http://persmin.gov.in/WriteData/Circ...8-Estt.(D).pdf

    In Para 5 of the Annexure, Illustration 1, after para b, it is mentioned that the promotions earned PRIOR to 01/01/2006 will be ignored on account of merger of the pre revised scale of 5000 - 8000, 5500 - 9000 & 6500 - 10500 recomended by the 6th Pay commission.

    Am I right sir ? If so I would like to go further in detail.

    Anthony

  5. #5
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Dear Shri.Jitendar,

    According to me, the promotions earned in the past means, those promotions earned before 01/01/2006.
    Kindly have look on the link below http://persmin.gov.in/WriteData/Circ...8-Estt.(D).pdf

    In Para 5 of the Annexure, Illustration 1, after para b, it is mentioned that the promotions earned PRIOR to 01/01/2006 will be ignored on account of merger of the pre revised scale of 5000 - 8000, 5500 - 9000 & 6500 - 10500 recomended by the 6th Pay commission.

    Am I right sir ? If so I would like to go further in detail.

    Anthony
    Dear Mr. Anthony,

    For your question you have given the right answer as per the Notification of DOPT. But why other staff who got acp/promotion between 1.1.2006 31.8.2008 to these merged scales are deprived of the benefit. You may offer your comments in detail. Sorry for encroaching Jitendar Sir
    Last edited by aneesh; 06-12-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: correction

  6. #6
    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear friends,

    Those who had been promoted in the merged grades (5000 - 8000, 5500 - 9000 & 6500 - 10500) prior to 01/01/2006 have been granted pay fixation as Per FR - 22.

    Now I take the particular case of 5500 - 9000 scale. In this grade 2 employees (Mr. X and Mr.Y) are promoted on 2 dates.

    Mr. X is promoted in scale 5000 - 8000 on 31/12/2005 with more than 10 years service.

    Mr. Y is promoted on 01/01/2006. from scale 5000 - 8000 with less than 10 years service.



    Mr. X gets his pay fixed as Per FR - 22 and gets an increment in the lower grade. Now MACPS is granted to Mr. X from 01/01/2006 with grade pay 4600 and an 3 % increment. He gets double fixation

    Mr. Y is promoted after 1 day (i.e) 01/01/2006 (for some may be even 28/09/2008). Now let us analyse what his pay would be fixed in Government departments.

    His promotion has been ignored.

    No pay fixation.

    This is prevailing in all departments all over India.

    Now my subject for discussion is that, as per the MACPS order with regard to the promotions earned in the merged grades prior to 01/01/2006 are IGNORED. What I mean is that, the pay fixation given for the promotions in scale 5500 - 9000 prior to 01/01/2006 has to be ignored (for granting MACPS). This means, there should not be double benefit (one increment in the lower grade and another increment in higher grade on MACPS).

    Now let us see why an increment can be granted to those promoted in the merged grades after 01/01/2006. Since, those who have earned the promotions prior to 01/01/2006 get double pay fixation( one in lower grade and one on MACPS), so also should the pay be fixed for those employees promoted after 01/01/2006 (i.e one in the lower grade and one increment on MACPS after completion of 10 years service in the same grade).

    I also wish to state that there is no mention of the promotions earned in the merged grades should be treated as nullified or ignored. I came across another clarification with regard to pay fixation for promotions after 01/01/2006 wherein, it states FR - 22 stands good even after implementation of the 6th pay commission.

    Accordingly, when an employee gets promoted from one grade to another wherein he assumes higher responsibility, an increment in the lower grade has to be given. Based on this an increment can be granted. This is also clarified vide the clarification No. 2 letter issued by DOPT.

    Why this anomaly and who would clear these anomalies ?

    Anthony

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    Member pkkanwal is on a distinguished road
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    Mr. Anthony and other senior members

    I am and my accounts section is very much confused regarding para 5 of Annex.-I of MACP regarding merger of pay scales of posts recommended by the 6CPC shall be ignored for the purpose of granting upgradations under MACPs. Kindly help me and my accounts section in this regard: I am working in an autnomous office.

    1. I was appointed in 1983 in the pay-scale 330-560 as Steno
    2. I was promoted in 1985 in the pay-scale 425/- (5500/-) as PA
    3. My second promotion was in 1996 in the pay-scale of 6,500/- as PS
    4. After 6CPC i have been granted PB-II and GP 4200/-.
    Here my questions are:

    1. Am I get some benefit out of para 5 of Annex-I of MACP? For example, I was promoted in 5500/- and 6500/- scale much before 1.1.2006. And as per illustrations given in this para I may get GP 4600/- in 5,500/- and GP 4,800/- in 6500/- scale from 1.1.2006?


    2. My second question is: as I have been in the 6,500/- scale from 1996, i.e., more than 13 years, I am entitled for my 3rd MACP? and if yes what will be my GP?

    Thanking you in advance

  8. #8
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Default Macp

    Quote Originally Posted by pkkanwal View Post
    Mr. Anthony and other senior members

    I am and my accounts section is very much confused regarding para 5 of Annex.-I of MACP regarding merger of pay scales of posts recommended by the 6CPC shall be ignored for the purpose of granting upgradations under MACPs. Kindly help me and my accounts section in this regard: I am working in an autnomous office.

    1. I was appointed in 1983 in the pay-scale 330-560 as Steno
    2. I was promoted in 1985 in the pay-scale 425/- (5500/-) as PA
    3. My second promotion was in 1996 in the pay-scale of 6,500/- as PS
    4. After 6CPC i have been granted PB-II and GP 4200/-.
    Here my questions are:

    1. Am I get some benefit out of para 5 of Annex-I of MACP? For example, I was promoted in 5500/- and 6500/- scale much before 1.1.2006. And as per illustrations given in this para I may get GP 4600/- in 5,500/- and GP 4,800/- in 6500/- scale from 1.1.2006?


    2. My second question is: as I have been in the 6,500/- scale from 1996, i.e., more than 13 years, I am entitled for my 3rd MACP? and if yes what will be my GP?

    Thanking you in advance

    Dear Sir,

    In my opinion your promotion from 5500 to 6500 will not be ignored as 4600 grade pay has been given for 6500 scale wef 1.1.2006. You are eligible for grade pay of Rs.4600 wef 1.1.2006. On completion of 30 years of service you may get grade pay of Rs.4800 on your 3rd MACP, since there is change in grade pay wef 1.1.2006. Senior members may also offer their views

  9. #9
    Senior Member narayanan is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkkanwal View Post
    Mr. Anthony and other senior members

    I am and my accounts section is very much confused regarding para 5 of Annex.-I of MACP regarding merger of pay scales of posts recommended by the 6CPC shall be ignored for the purpose of granting upgradations under MACPs. Kindly help me and my accounts section in this regard: I am working in an autnomous office.

    1. I was appointed in 1983 in the pay-scale 330-560 as Steno
    2. I was promoted in 1985 in the pay-scale 425/- (5500/-) as PA
    3. My second promotion was in 1996 in the pay-scale of 6,500/- as PS
    4. After 6CPC i have been granted PB-II and GP 4200/-.
    Here my questions are:

    1. Am I get some benefit out of para 5 of Annex-I of MACP? For example, I was promoted in 5500/- and 6500/- scale much before 1.1.2006. And as per illustrations given in this para I may get GP 4600/- in 5,500/- and GP 4,800/- in 6500/- scale from 1.1.2006?


    2. My second question is: as I have been in the 6,500/- scale from 1996, i.e., more than 13 years, I am entitled for my 3rd MACP? and if yes what will be my GP?

    Thanking you in advance
    Dear Shri Kanwal,

    You got your 1st promotion after 2 years and 2nd promotion after 11 years. Therefore, you are eligible for 3rd upgradation under MACPS after 2+11+10 = 23 years from the date of first appointment. Since you have completed this 23 years of service by 1.9.2008 (the date from which MACPS become operational) you will get your 3rd upgradation from GP 4600 to GP 4800 w.e.f. 1.9.2008.

    With regards,
    Narayanan

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    Member pkkanwal is on a distinguished road
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    Shri Aneesh ji and Shri Narayanan ji

    Thank you very much for your reply. It means I will not get any benefit of para 5 of Annex.-I of MACP. But I will get my 3rd MACP from 1.9.2008, i.e., from the date of implementation of MACP.

    Thank you once again.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear pkkanwal,

    As per the MACPS order Para 5 Illustration 1 clearly describes that those who got 2 promotion or not, or got ACP, their promotions are ignored for granting MACPS. Accordingly you should have been given the benefit of Para-5 and the GP - 4600 and 4800 should be given to you.

    The only doubt I have is " will the pay fixed on those 2 promotions will still hold good or will that also be ignored ? Since for 2 MACPS you might be getting 2 more increments"

    Anthony

  12. #12
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Mr. Kanwal,

    You were appointed in 1983 – (330-560) (GP 2400)
    1st promotion in 1985 - (425-700) (GP 2800)
    2nd promotion in 1996 - (6500-10500) (GP 4600)
    As on 01.01.2006 your GP in the revised pay structure will be refixed to 4600 on the basis of the orders of November 13, 2009.

    Under the MACP Scheme of May 19, 2009 your 3rd MACP upgradation to the GP of 4800 is due from 01.09.2008 (i.e. on completion of 10 years of service in the grade of 6500-10500 or on the date of inception of the MACP Scheme whichever is later.

    The above position was correctly stated by Mr. Narayanan in his earlier post in this thread.

    For your kind information, Para 5 of MACP Scheme of May, 2009 relates only to cases where the promotions are granted to those grades which now (after implementation of the recommendations of SCPC) carry the same grade pay due to merger of payscales/upgradation of posts recommended by SCPC. In your case, none of the promotions you earned in the past (from 1983 onwards) were between the grades which now carry the same grade pay. Therefore, neither para 5 nor the illustrations under para 5 of MACP Scheme will be of any relevance to you.

  13. #13
    Member venkatcustoms is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by aneesh View Post
    Dear Sir,


    In my opinion your promotion from 5500 to 6500 will not be ignored as 4600 grade pay has been given for 6500 scale wef 1.1.2006. You are eligible for grade pay of Rs.4600 wef 1.1.2006. On completion of 30 years of service you may get grade pay of Rs.4800 on your 3rd MACP, since there is change in grade pay wef 1.1.2006. Senior members may also offer their views
    This refers to querry raised by pkkanwal in the previous page.
    My opinion is the same except with regard to grant of MACP.
    He is eligible for MACP wef 01.09.2008 as he has completed more than 10 years of service since his last promotion in the scale of 6500
    Last edited by venkatcustoms; 10-12-2009 at 05:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Default macp

    Dear Mr. PKKanwal

    You are lucky. Many members have evinced interest and replied to your query. You are eligible for 3rd ACP wef 1.9.2008 as opined by majority of the gconnect members and also they have corrected me. My regards to them. Kindly let me know whether MACP has already been implemented in your office?

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    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Aneesh,

    I have another doubt, Will the fixation of pay given to those employees on promotion in the merged grades before 01/01/2006 be ignored for granting MACPS, since it has been stated in the MACPS order that, for granting MACPS in the merged grades, those promotions earned in the PAST(prior to 01/01/2006) are ignored. Because, they will be getting fresh fixation on granting MACPS.

    Anthony

  16. #16
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Dear Aneesh,

    I have another doubt, Will the fixation of pay given to those employees on promotion in the merged grades before 01/01/2006 be ignored for granting MACPS, since it has been stated in the MACPS order that, for granting MACPS in the merged grades, those promotions earned in the PAST(prior to 01/01/2006) are ignored. Because, they will be getting fresh fixation on granting MACPS.

    Anthony
    You might have gone through the recent orders on MACP reg ignoring acp granted to Group D staff in the pre revised scales. I am of the opinion that in the same way pay fixation done earlier will also be ignored.

  17. #17
    Member pkkanwal is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks Members and Sr. Members of Gconnect giving reply on my query.

    PKKanwal

  18. #18
    Senior Member Anthony is on a distinguished road
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    Dear friends,
    In Railways, MACPS have been implemented and orders are under issue. Those who have been promoted in the merged grades before 01/01/2006, their promotions have been ignored for granting MACPS.

    a) If the promotions have been ignored, should not the pay which was fixed on promotions be ignored too ? But the pay is protected and another 3 % increment is granted on MACPS. Is that not double benefit ? This is prevalent in all Departments, as far I hear from sources.

    b). But those who have promoted after 01/01/2006, in the merged grades, their promotions have been nullified and pay is not fixed in the promoted grade. What will the anomaly committee do with this type of anomaly ?

    Anthony

  19. #19
    Senior Member narayanan is on a distinguished road
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    Default MACPS - Just ignore promotions

    Dear Mr Anthony,

    Simply ignore the promotions- that was the advise to those working in the merged scales by the SCPC. MACPS confirmed the same.

    The issue raised seems to be interesting one.

    a) New pay structure is applicable from 1.1.2006 onwards and MACPS is applicable from 1.9.2008 onwards. Therefore, pay prior to 1.1.2006 cannot be reviewed. When the promotion itself is lost in the new pay structure, atleast the benefit of fixation accrued during the promotion is required to be protected. They will have to wait for more years beyond 31.8.2008 to get an upgradation under MACPS comparing with those promotees after 1.1.2006. Therefore, the benefit available to the seniors is due to them.

    b) For those promoted after 1.1.2006, option for fixation from the date of promotion is available provided they elect to continue in the pre-revised structure and foregoing the arrears(upto 31.8.2008). In such cases the benefit of fixation shall be available.

    In both the cases, there is chances of upgradation on the same date i.e. on 1.9.2008 irrespective the date of promotions (which were ignored).

    Therefore in my view, the issue raised cannot be treated as an anomaly.

    regards
    narayanan

  20. #20
    Junior Member HARRY2005 is on a distinguished road
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    Default Anomaly due to promotion after 1/1/2006

    I am also facing same issue. Please find my brief discription about the problem.

    I was in the pay scale 5000-8000 on 1/1/2006 and was promoted after qualifying departmental competitive exam (held in 2005 but result declared after a year in 2006) to 5500-9000 on 03/2006 and there was jump in the seniority list as the quota for competitive exam was 25% of the vacancy.

    After implementation of 6CPC I was given an extra increment of 3% for promotion, which was taken back after the order for MACP and our financial benefit for the promotion was taken back but our seniority was maintained. But now there are rumours that our department is again modifying the seniority list and reverting us back to our intial position as on 01/01/2006.

    Thanks

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