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Thread: Disbursement of pension to totally disabled pensioner

  1. #1
    Member S.C.Maheshwari is on a distinguished road
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    Default Disbursement of pension to totally disabled pensioner

    Dear friends,
    Today during the course of meeting with Secretary ,Dy Secy. & Director (PP) GOI Ministry of Personnel, PG & pensions a very important issue came up for discussion i.e.

    Evolving a policy to ensure correct payment of pension, (safeguarding against frauds& cheating) to a totally disabled pensioner e.g. the one suffering from terminal disease in advanced stage unable to move from bed, unable to sign ,an Alzheimer patient or taking the worst case eg; a pensioner who can not speak ,has gone blind, bed ridden unable to move or is in a mental asylum.
    My suggestion to put the question on internet through RREWA & other sites to obtain views of intelligentsia & the pensioner’s think tank was agreed to. I took upon me the responsibility to put upto them the consolidated view point. I there fore seek a solution from you.
    Kindly take into account 1. Role of pension disbursing authority 2. Pensioners associations 3. RWAs 4. Guardians 5. Witnesses to guard against frauds/cheating/allegations etc, who & how many witnesses may be there 6. incase bank is not prepared to do service w/o cost what may be the cost &who to bear it
    Regards
    Maheshwari

  2. #2
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri Maheshwari/ all

    What has been posed is a serious matter and also a complicated subject.

    Many may not have faced the ground realities of such cases and hence I find there had been not many quick postings.

    I thought I will catalyse the debate by posing a few options/ ideas - though I am not a "Rule conversant" or "Bureacratic background" pensioner.

    True such cases have been brought to the notice of some Associations an how they have resolved the issue may not be acceptable to all Pension disbursing channels like Banks/ POs etc.

    My ideas:

    1.Whole system has to be hi-tech- quick and fast.

    2.Totally Disabled Pensioners (TDPs- I will call them) - immediate registration of the case by themselves/ by or through their near/dear/family/inheritors etc with the DoP/PW/CPAO/PPO issuuing authority must be done to get a special Id- Code- and special PPO issued for them. 3.TDP's Power of Attorney/ Letter of Authority holder/ holders shall be applied for by TDP themselves or his kin/kith etc then duly identified/ verified/ registered by the Pension Disbursing bank etc..

    3.Separate Data Base on them/ their authority holders/ changes etc has to be maintained and monitored by the DoP/PW or its authorised nodal portal- at National and / or Regional levels.

    4.Disbursal has to continue as of now-through Banks preferably- as can be opted by the TDP/ his authority holders.

    5.Payments have to be by transfer of ECS in case it has to go to some other account for quick transaction- like Old Age Home/ Nursing Home/ authorised Kith- Kin- Relatives etc. Alternate modes as convenient for banks can be adopted.

    6.Where possible biometric id systems like Finger Print (FP) techniques can be introduced to be fool- proof !- For this the TDP shall have an access to an online Computer system and the corresponding Bank may also have the facility. This may take long-time to get introduced-But to avoid frauds, once in three months, verification by FP sensitive mouse like log-in device can be used to have checks. The DoP/PW has to think/ idemtify/ introduce this where necessary through the welfare bodies who shall always act in the interest of TDPs.

    7.In all cases, for ensuring fair disbursal/ avoid delays/ prevent frauds of TDP payments- nearest Registered Pensioner Welfare Associations/ Federations/ EC members of them may be given the responsibility of tracking the effective and correct disbursals in time- as thier OBLIGATION to the welfare of TDPENSIONERS and the Govt./ DoP/PW may defray expenses and compensate such helpful bodies in an approprite manner IF SO NEEDED.

    8.Neutral Witnesses may be necessary only if disbursal is not by ECS transfer systems- say where cash payments are involved. In such cases help as mooted out in 7 above has to be sought. Expenses if any as suggested above.

    9. IN ALL CASES, PENSION PAYMENTS ARE THE ONUS OF THE GOVT. OPTING FOR RECEIVING THE PENSIONs THROUGH BANKS or POs DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE ROLE OF THE GOVT. WILL END ONCE FOR ALL ! NOT SO AT LEAST IN SPL. CASES LIKE TDPs IN DISCUSSION.

    CONSEQUENTLY, ALL PERIPHERAL EXPENCES ARE TO BE BORNE BY THE GOVT. without much hassles and within rigid time-frame.

    10. FOR TDPs- LET US ALL BE GRACEFUL TO PROPOSE/MAKE ADVANCE PAYMENTS IN THE FIRST WEEK OF EACH MONTH ITSELF. CAN IT BE QUARTERLY IN ADVANCE? WHY NOT? SERVING EMPLOYEES DRAW TA/DA or LTCs in advance and take a long-time to settle the claim. Here Pension- being pensioner's own deferred wage- why not give an advance?

    IN FACT MOST IDEAL WOULD BE TO ENSURE THAT THE TDPs BECOME THE MOST PRIVILEGED PENSIONERs AND THEIR PENSION REACH THEIR HANDS/ THEIR DESIRED DESTINATIONS WITHOUT ANY OBSTACLES.TOWARDS THIS, RULES/SYSTEMS MUST BE REORIENTED TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS.

    (I am a novice at this game of audit/ accounts- but during my service I have flouted some procedures in the interest of the Govt.objevctives/ achievements and none had misunderstood me- nor the well-meaning auditing authorities. My MINISTRY bureaucrat-seniors had always supported my initiatives!)

    I do expect lot of criticism on my ideas- welcome pl.

    Regards

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-12-2008 at 02:06 PM. Reason: traddition of text

  3. #3
    Member S.C.Maheshwari is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you very much for your response.I fail to understand how our people can be so insensitive to such an important &delicate issue especially when administration is ready to help. I once again request every one on the forum to kindly respond
    Regards
    Maheshwari

  4. #4
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri Maheshwari/ DEAR ALL

    I fully appreciate your remarks. Not that people are indiffrent- may be or may not be-

    Unless it happens or affects directly (I dont wish it shd happen to anybody in the remote) one doesnt wake up.

    Problem you have pointed out cd arise in many cases in future - as most of the Pensioners are in nucleated separated-families (not in joint family system) and few of them in remote old age homes alone. We are aware of quite a few living in such homes here and they are in touch with us for 6cpc fixations etc- THANKS to the Hi Tech computer facility- and such homes are equipped with latest systems - and are poroviding internet connectivity to the old aged inmates there. ONE OF MY OWN OLDEST COLLEAGUE - touching 90 Years now- is in toiuch thru internet/ emails and we have helped him to clarify on his eligible pension this time including the old age addition of extra 30% etc.

    Banks with great difficulty agree for any affidavit etc only if endorsed by the Pension Authorities concerned. That is why I had proposed for a spl. status for these TDPs.

    I trust more ideas will come up in due course of time.

    I request some of the active debaters here to think and suggest-S/Shri R SUNDARAM/ KS SITARAMAN/ BALASUBRAMANIAN/ P K RANGANARTHAN/A V MUKUNTHARAJAN/SUNDARAR/DNAGA/JITENDA/VIJAY/SUDACGWB etc etc can certainly research and write- give suggestions

    THE MATTER CONCERNS FUTURE OF SOME OF US? OUR CLAN.

    PLEASE HELP WITH YOUR IDEAS SO THAT SHRI MAHESHWARI CAN ACHIEVE THE OBJECTIVE FOR ALL OF US- MORE APTLY FOR OUR FAMILIES IN FUTURE- BECAUSE THEY NEED MORE PENSION MONEY DUE TO EVER-INCREASING COST OF LIVING!

    Regards

    vnatarajan
    (President, Pensioners' Forum,Chennai).
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-12-2008 at 01:40 PM.

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    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri Maheshwari,

    I am pasting here some email corresp. from our network.

    From: <rs.g[email protected]>
    Date: Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:37 PM
    Subject: Re: Disbursement of pension to totally disabled pensioners
    To: Rajagopalan A <[email protected]>


    Suggestion
    1. The pension account may be made a joint account with wife or husband or any other relative of the pensioner.
    2. The life certificate may be signed by some gazetted officer.
    3. The certificate of the doctor treating the pensioner may also be taken as proof.
    RSGoyal

    Reply of Shri A Rajagopalan

    Dear Sri Goyal,
    The government has permitted joint account for receiving pension long back.
    If you maintain single account you can convert to joint account
    ARajagopalan

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    vnatarajan

  6. #6
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri Maheshwari/ all interested

    Some paragraphs- from internet sources- as may be relevant to my ideas and the subject:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Norway:

    Miscellaneous services for the elderly Pensioners are offered various kinds of support services on a municipal
    or private basis. Support schemes mainly aim at enabling elderly people
    to remain in their own homes for as long as possible. The schemes
    include delivery of meals, telephone chains, home-visiting schemes,
    physiotherapy and occupational therapy, hairdressing, pedicure,
    gardening and snow clearing, washing and mending clothes. The
    transport scheme is for people who are unable to use public transport or
    to get around on their own.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My comments: (1) I am aware it is done in USA also.May be all over the globe in several advanced countries (2)Why not Pensioner Assiciations here in India do some service- at least act as a bridge between the Pension Disbursing source and the DiTDP- to ensure the fairness/ correctness of the disbursal? ACTIVE PENSIONER CAN DO THE SERVICE. GOVT.TO COMPENSATE.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    § 8817. Payment of disability pension. --In Delaware County, USA
    (a) Disability pension payments shall be made to a member for each month beginning with the month in which the member becomes eligible to receive such pension and ending with the month in which the member ceases to be eligible or dies.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. [PPT]
    Biometrics at the Philippine Social Security System
    File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint - View as HTML
    For the same year, the SSS disbursed a total of $1.46 billion for old-age pension, sickness & maternity and disability benefits to 2.08 million workers and ...
    zing.ncsl.nist.gov/biousa/docs/workshop08/day2/7Sibucao/Biometrics_Philippine_Social_Security_System.pps

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More may follow.

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-12-2008 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Improving Text

  7. #7
    Senior Member G.Ramdas is on a distinguished road
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    Reserve Bank of India has consolidated the instructions for payment of pension to sick/old/incapacitated pensioners which are now available in pensioners portal:

    http://pensionersportal.gov.in/sixthcpc.asp

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    Senior Member Kanaujiaml is on a distinguished road
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    My dear Mr. Maheshwari. I have read all the posts 1 to 7. The RBI guidelines are already there and cover almost all aspects but these are already known to the Ministry of Personal, Deptt. of Pensioners. With regard to Pensioners, who become totally in capacitated and unable to do anything and even who cannot talk or gesture, I have got one suggestion for consideration. In such cases involve the person in pension disbursement, who is legally " would be family pensioner " concerning the "pensioner totally incapacitated. " Would be family pensioner or eldest of the would be family pensioner, should be allowed to operate the A/c of the "totally incapacitated pensioner" by forming a committee comparising of a representative of the bank concerned and two other responsible pensioners drawing pension from the same bank. If a pensioners Association exists, in place of other pensioner, President and General Seceretary can be included as two other members of the committee.
    One important condition of course, would be that the amount of pension drawn by such "would be family pensioner" would be spent totally on the totally incapacitated pensioner. I would be happy to learn if there are any loop holes in my suggestion, so that these can be taken care of. Kindly respond.

  9. #9
    Senior Member G.Ramdas is on a distinguished road
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    Sh. Kanaujia in his post # 8 has brought out valuable suggestions. However,there are cases where the pensioner does not have any family and there would be no "would be family pensioner" down the line. This applies to bachelor pensioners as well. There may be well wishers to help out such pensioners. While every effort is to be taken to ensure that the pension reaches the pensioner or is utilized for his needs, it cannot be said that the total pension of the totally incapacitated pensioner is given to him.The well-wisher may not profit from the operation but to expect him to bear the incidental expenses of realizing the pension and delivering it for the pensioner's expenses, would be too much to expect. This includes cases where the pensioners are in old age homes and are looked after by the "well wishers"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Kanaujiaml is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.Ramdas View Post
    Sh. Kanaujia in his post # 8 has brought out valuable suggestions. However,there are cases where the pensioner does not have any family and there would be no "would be family pensioner" down the line. This applies to bachelor pensioners as well. There may be well wishers to help out such pensioners. While every effort is to be taken to ensure that the pension reaches the pensioner or is utilized for his needs, it cannot be said that the total pension of the totally incapacitated pensioner is given to him.The well-wisher may not profit from the operation but to expect him to bear the incidental expenses of realizing the pension and delivering it for the pensioner's expenses, would be too much to expect. This includes cases where the pensioners are in old age homes and are looked after by the "well wishers"
    My dear GRamdass. I entirely agree with you. Mr. Maheshwari, G.Sec. RREWA told me that one such case came to his knowledge where no would be family pensioner was available and some body was taking advantage of the circustances in perhaps connavance of the Bank people. Finally, no solution could be found for such cases. However, my submission is that in other cases, help of would be pensioner can be obtained. The solution given by RBI is too cumbersome for a pensioner under such circumstances, to follow. [email protected]
    Last edited by Kanaujiaml; 16-01-2009 at 04:58 PM.

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