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Thread: Last Pay based Pension at all point of time

  1. #1
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Question Last Pay based Pension at all point of time

    Dear Sirs,

    As suggested by Shri Balasubramaniam in the thread `Injutice', I keep continuing to share the views further for all our Members perusal.

    When the Resolution itself had not said that dispensation of linkage of Full pension with 33 years qualifying service with prospective effect only, why the 50% basic pay last drawn cannot be considered as the full pension for all pensioners with 20 years Completed service or otherwise pro-rata for any point of time, say1956/66/76/86/96/2006 and so on, on par with post-Sep. 2008 Pensioners? I think the current employees = future pensioners will also welcome this suggestion as in the next pay commission, on or after 2016 or afterwards when they retire
    they too will get benefited by this.

    Whenever the pay got/will be getting revised, corresponding 50% of revised pay will be the revised pension of that time. This will resolve any further complaints and there is no need to separate orders with misappropriate interpretations in future revision of pension. There is no need to raise any grievance by any future pensioner for want of clarity. One single line order is sufficient to put at rest all our crying. Banks also will not find difficult to implement the varyingly interpreted OMs as of now, at any time in this situation.

    For example, if I retired with a basic pay of Rs.7250 in the pay scale of 5500-9000 in 1997 - The 50% of pay works out to Rs.3625(Actual is 2143 as I had served 19.5 years) and pro-rata for 20 Years is 3625 x 39/40 = 3534. The corresponding 50% Pay will be Rs.3534 x 1.86 = 6573. (No Grade Pay factor has
    so far been proposed for this, but in future if that will help further, alongwith 50% of corresponding revised pay, the 50% Grade Pay also can be added in which case, the pension will be Rs.6573+2047= 8620) {A}.

    A person with last pay(min. of scale) Rs.5500/- with same service will draw pension in revised structure Rs.5007(with grade pay factor it will be 7034). (A1)


    But if I apply simply 2.26 formula to my 50% of pre-revised pay, viz. Rs.3625 and pro-rata will be 3534, the revised pension as per fixation table will be Rs.7986 (B).

    Same way, the person with last pay (min. of scale) Rs.5500/- and 50% of the same will be Rs.2750 and pro-rata 2681 and multiplied by 2.26 will become 6059 (B1).

    2. Suppose, if we both had served max. qualifying service 33 years my pension as per the formula will be 3625 x 2.26 = 8192 (C).

    3(i). The other person with Rs.5500 pre-revised basic, will get
    2750 x 2.26 = Rs.6215.(C1)

    3(ii) The Annexure to O.M. dt. 3/14.10.2008 comes to his rescue to escalate further to Rs.6750 (C2).

    3(iii) The Para 4.2 if applied in letter and spirit to the extent of `50% of Minimum Pay in the Pay Band, then his pension will further get elevated to 7215 (C3)

    3(iv) My Pension will not undergo any change even in case of
    amended para, because my pension as per table had already become Rs.8192 (C).

    3(v) Here, only the minimum pension that has to be ensured for persons retired with minimum pay of the pre-revised scale so that their pension can ultimately become 50% of minimum pay in the pay band +......
    For those who were drawing more than the minimum of the pay,
    unless the basic pay last drawn in pre-revised scale do not relate with the corresponding revised basic, they will have to be deemed to have been retired with the minimum basic pay of the scale from which they retired. Here Pay drawn is not important and only the minimum basic is only important.

    So, it is self-explanatory that there is no separate formula is required for pensioners as long as the pay of the serving employee is undergoing revision with a formula of 1.86. For Scales not having 1.86 formula we have to make a separate analysis and we will do that also in a later stage scale by scale shortly.

    My actual revised Pension now is Rs.4845 (as per 2.26 formula). With 50% of sum of pb + GP, my minimum ensurable pension will be Rs.3988. (In the case of above referrred person retired with minimum 5500 as last pay with same service in same scale, his revised pension as per 2.26 formula will be 3338 (2500x39/66x2.26 and minimum ensurable pension will be same 3988 as of me). If the Govt. is amending para 4.2 to the extent of 50% of Minimum pay in pay band, then my revised pension ensurable is Rs.4263 (and in the other person's case also the same amount). Minimum of the scale only is important for determining the minimum ensurable pension through 50% of Pay in the Pay Band + Grade Pay applicable. –

    Whether we can imagine the case of a person retired with 33 years max. qualifying service where the pay earned do not play a role in determining the ensurable minimum pension?. While a person who retired after 33 years from any of the 25 scales (S-5 to S-30) will have to draw only 50% of the sum of the minimum pay band/minimum pay in the pay band +GP of the corresponding scale, another person retiring/retired after 1.9.2006 with just 20 years will draw 50% of his revised pay last drawn.

    What about the Employers' (Govt.) contribution for the remaining 13 years in the case of former, who had sacrificed the same while no Employers' contribution need to be sacrificed by the latter beyond 20 years to become eligible for full pension. The latter may continue or retire but the question is that should there not be a common crieteria for determining a person's pension - Last Pay Drawn/max. Qualifying Service while ensuring full pension. What is the use of Para 4.2 when it does not serve in a situation when 20 years Qualifying service is not prescribed for all?

    In the case of minimum pay in the Pay band with 20 years max. qualifying service, my minimum ensurable pension will be Rs.7034 (A1).
    As I pointed out earlier, a person with 5500 last pay drawn will also draw the same amount (both of our service being same 19.5 years) (A1). Here too the pay earned do not play a role in spite of amending the two paras of O.M. in question. However, if a person with minimum of the scale and myself drawing same pension, there is no problem. At least his pension is stepped upto that of myself, considering that he is the senior who got promotion as retiree at the early stage of the scale and myself at a later stage of the same scale although both had rendered same service.
    pensionable service.

    In ground reality, if we compare and apply Lateral Thinking: A AND A1 ABOVE will keep both the pensioners happy (as against A1 for both or B/B1 respectively - where B is more than A1 and B1 is less than A1) at respective level, and pay earned will actually have a corresponding impact on the final pension to be arrived at on par with post-2008 retirees and then only we can say `modified parity' has been achieved among Pensioners of the Govt. of India.
    That is the reason for my suggesting Last Pay Based 20 years maximum qualifying service for full pension and where service is
    less than 20 years pro-rata basis of Last Pay drawn which will keep each and every pensioner to be proud of his
    hard earned INDIVIDUAL BASIC PAY (at the time of his retirement (any type) as the BASIS) AND ITS CORRESPONDING REVISED BASIC PAY EVEN AFTER RETIREMENT THAT FORM PART OF 50% AS PENSION AT ANY POINT OF TIME.

    The need for prescribing minimum ensurable pension even after introduction of 2.26 formula itself is self-explanatory and the question to be asked by the authorities themselves, whether that need is fulfilled at all?

    The Illustrative example is only as an information. The position may vary from Scale to scale and our Members may please cross check and share their views Particularly in this aspect, as my notion can be got corrected appropriately.
    My e-mail: [email protected]
    I am not that capable to present my views in proper and qualified manner in readable/Understandable condition. However, my thoughts I intended to share and will continue To share further…….

    Best Regards.
    Last edited by sundarar; 14-12-2008 at 07:07 AM. Reason: APPLICATION OF LATERAL THINKING LATER

  2. #2
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    hi

    Dear Sundarar

    I reproduce a very important line from your posting, with a slight addition in brackets:

    "hard earned INDIVIDUAL BASIC PAY (at the time of his retirement (any type) as the BASIS) AND ITS CORRESPONDING REVISED BASIC PAY EVEN AFTER RETIREMENT THAT FORM PART OF 50% AS PENSION AT ANY POINT OF TIME".

    Things can easily be settled for all if this approach is accepted by the Govt. Afeter all you can not be denied what was the just equivalent of your last pension- pro-rata!

    Not some segments getting abnormally higher rises and others getting not even an average rise.

    Hope things improve.

    regards

    vnatarajan.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Talking Hard earned basic pay of individual retiree for pension

    Respected Sir,

    You have put me now in right track with refining my thought.

    Meanwhile, I came to know that for post-2006 but pre-Sep.2008 retirees Ministry of Personnel have made them eligible for 50% pension based on last pay drawn, for those who retired with 33+ years of service wef 1.1.2006. The new OM dt 11.12.08 is avaialble in website pensionersportal.gov.in. Let us celebrate the news which has come this day which is an auspicious day in south when we light lamps in our houses for seeking the blessings of Lord Subramanya like what we do during Deepavali in north.. As per this O.M.,
    those who retired during 1.1.2006 to 2.9.2008 with qualifying service of 33 years will be eligible for full pension and those who retired during the period with less than 33 years qualifying service will receive on pro-rata basis. I will continue shortly.

    Best Regards.

  4. #4
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Thumbs up Analysis of PB-4 (Pensioners)

    Dear Sirs,

    I had earlier commited in the same thread that I will come to PB 4 Scale soon.
    Accordingly, my submissions are as follows:
    As per the existing orders, 50% of minimum of PB+GP will be full pension for 33 years qualifying service in respect of pre-2006 pensioners.

    The Minimum of Pre-revised scale and Minimum pay in the pay band and PB and GP as applicable are as hereunder:

    S24 PB 4 14300 37400 PB37400 GP 8700
    S25 PB 4 15100 39690 -do- -do-
    S26 PB 4 16400 39690 -do- GP 8900
    S27 PB 4 16400 39690 -do- -do-
    S28 PB 4 16400 37400 -do- GP 10000
    S29 PB 4 14300 44700 -do- GP 10000
    S30 PB 4 18400 51850 PB37400 GP 10000
    All PB Minimum are same 37400.

    On an average, a person from S-23 can expect promotion to S-24 in a period
    of more than 5 years subject to vacancy/seniority and same applies from one scale to another further. Whereas, as per the existing orders, S-24 and S-25 pensioners will get only 23050, S-26 and S-27 will get Rs.23150 (I am unable to type at this point of time while thinking about me who retired with just 19.5 years from S-010 with last pay Rs.7250 only). More so, when proceeding further, to tell that all three scale pensioners will get 23700 only. Any Lateral Thinking can help at this point of time by the Authorities?....

    Like in the case of Post-2006 pensioners (Pre-Sep.2008), if the expected order on `Minimum pay in the pay band' is on our hands tomorrow, what will be the position?

    S-24 23050
    S-25 24195
    S-26 24295
    S-27 24285
    S-28 23700
    S-29 27300
    S-30 30925

    At the same time HAG Pension will be as follows:
    Scale Min. of Scale Pension
    S-31 (22400) 37750
    S-32 (24050) 37750
    S-33 (26000) 40000
    S-34/S-35 (30000) 45000

    The PB 4 Group other than HAG will get a pension between 23-30 where asd
    and the HAG will get pension between 37-45. The pay revised scales range between 14-18 for other than HAG and for HAG it is 22-30. The Minimum has variation about8000 and maximum has variation about 12000.

    Even if we apply 50%of variation to this, the scales S-24 may be having pension at 30000 and rest will have 31000 and the scale at S-29 may be having 35000 and the S-30 scale may be having 38000. This is only a rough idea to arrive at the probable minimum pension corresponding to the pre-revised scale of S-24 to S-30 and the actual pension of remaining HAG Scales. Suppose a person retiring with more than minimum of the pre-revised scale in any of these Scales including S-24 and S-35, he will also get the same minimum 50% of pay band +GP or if amended 50% of minimum pay in PB and GP and that too after rendering a 33 years+ service. His hard earned individual pay does not have any weightage like that of post-2006 pensioners.
    Further, in comparison with the post-Sep.2008 pensioners retiring with 20 years even in the minimum pay scale, the hard earned service of 13 years as well as hard earned individual pay in the scale have gone into Ganges. The corresponding Employers' Contribution will also have no meaning.

    There are some arguments from some quarters that the `burden' will be more even if they interpret pay in pay band which is actual version of the O.M. itself. ONly the annexure differs from its mother. What has become more
    we see ourselves, which is in 100-650 or so in r/o S-23 to S-30 scales.
    Even if pay in pay band is implemented, the maximum pension is just 30000 and minimum is just 23050/24195. Whereas, by a rough calcuation in the preceding para, the minimum itself will be 30000 for S-23/S-24 and the maximum will be Rs.35000/38000 for S-29/S-30.

    Same changes will take place in respective Scales of S-5 to S-23. For this purpose, the following two things are very essential to just even cross check.

    1. Why the Govt. is always telling 50% of average emoluments or 50% of last pay drawn (as confirmed by the latest order of 11.12.2008) is the revised pension. Because, the serving employee is slated to draw 100% emoluments the pensioner will be able to run the family with 50% of that. When the serving employees' emoluments get revised, is not judicious to revise the
    corresponding 50% in respect of pensioners to that of revised 50% of emoluments corresponding to pre-revised pay which determined the basic pension.

    2. What is the need for dispensing with the linkage of full pension with max. qualifying service of 33 years (no prospective effect has been prescribed by the Resolution) by prescribing max. 20 years or otherwise pro-rata.
    Because, even at this stage, we are talking only in terms of 50% of emoluments in revised structure for post-2006 pensioners and 50% of emoluments applicable four Paybands minimum + GP applicable for rest of the pensioners. Even if we amend pay in pay band, what is going to happen? Just a few hundreds/thousands as pointed above, which have no meaning corresponding to the various
    stages in the pre-revised scales and the responsibilities attached to the respective posts right from Independence. Yes, something is better than nothing. Whether that is what the intention behind by the authorities to
    apply different logic for future pensioners and something else for past pensioners. We have a bounden duty to respect the Hon. Supreme Court Ruling in its fullest terms, and the logic behind the 6CPC also has to be seen in depth while issuing implementation orders. The yardstick/logic applied for
    post-Sep.2008 pensioners hold good for pre-Sep.2008 pensioners whatever
    Paycommission period may be earlier right from 1946 or so onwards.

    To conclude, a pensioner is a pensioner and he was also an employee at difficult times of pre-computer era. Things were re-generated during post-independence to bring out what is the situation today. There is no credit taking in giving 20% or something for 80 years pensioners, and 100 years aged pensioners. Instead, for a while, please all think what would be their corresponding revised pay compared to their last pay drawn on the date of retirement, and if 50% of such corresponding revised pay of date if paid to them by having a uniform policy for ALL PENSIONERS AS A WHOLE,
    Whether Govt. will not get the blessings of all these present day senior citizens/future senior citizens? This is the Pensioners' Welfare that ought to be.

    I pray LORD SHRINATHJI AND LORD SHRI GURUVAYOORAPPAN TO APPEAR AS
    JUSTICE KRISHNA AND SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS OF THE DATE. I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO ADD BEYOND THIS PRAYER AT THIS MOMENT PLEASE.

    AS USUAL THANKS FOR PATIENT READING. QUALITY CONSISTENCY ETC.
    MAY BE MISSING IN MY MESSAGE. BURDEN OF THE MESSAGE IS LIKE THAT, SO PLEASE EXCUSE ME.

    BEST REGARDS. If Santa Clause is not bringing another amendment,
    New Year and Pongal (Thai piranthal Vazhi Pirakkum - IF TAMIL MONTH JAN.14 PONGAL COMES THERE WILL BE WAY OUT FOR ALL PROBLEMS). THEN OR OTHERWISE ALSO AND ALWAYS -
    SHRI KRISHNA CHARANAM MAMAA.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Quote: If I retired with a basic pay of Rs.7250 in the pay scale of 5500-9000 in 1997 - The 50% of pay works out to Rs.3625(Actual is 2143 as I had served 19.5 years) and pro-rata for 20 Years is 3625 x 39/40 = 3534. The corresponding 50% Pay will be Rs.3534 x 1.86 = 6573. (No Grade Pay factor has
    so far been proposed for this, but in future if that will help further, alongwith 50% of corresponding revised pay, the 50% Grade Pay also can be added in which case, the pension will be Rs.6573+2047= 8620) {A}Quote

    A Person who got recruited in the year 1988 in the same scale at minimum of the scale 1640 would be drawing Rs.6900 in 1997 or so and as on 31.12.2005 his pay will be arpimd 9500 and revised pay will be around 22,000 or so and
    on 31.12.2008 his pay will be Rs.25000 and if he quits service his pension will be Rs.12,500. If the same person has to retire before 2.9.2008, 33 year criteria will be applied. If the same person retired before 1.1.2006, no last pay drawn but 50% of average emoluments or last pay emoluments in the pre-revised structure.

    This requires serious analysis by experts.

    Best Regards.

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