# Thread: sixth pay fixation on promotion

1. ## sixth pay fixation on promotion

sir,
I have opted to revise the pay structure with effect from 01-01-2006.

My basic pay is Rs 10000 as on 01-01-2006 due to promotion( date of promotion is 01-01-2006) in the scale of 10000-325-15200. Before promotion My basic is Rs 9100 in the scale of 8000-275-13500( old increment date is 01-10-2005). As per sixth pay, My pay in pay band is Rs 18600 ( 1.86 X basic as on 01-01-2006) and Grade pay is Rs. 6600. But our office fixed as follows.

Pay in payband is Rs. 17600 and Grade pay is Rs. 6600. (by considering basic of Rs. 9100)

2. Dear Sh Vijayan,

In my view, on 1.1.2006 on promotion, your pay should be fixed in the pre-revised scale at Rs.10,000/- and then to calculate the new pay in the new pay band. Accordingly your pay in the new pay band is calculated by multiplying Rs.10000 with 1.86. i.e. Rs.18,600/- alongwith with a grade pay of Rs.6600/- your next date of increment shall be 1.7.2006.

with regards,

Narayanan

3. Originally Posted by vijayan
sir,
I have opted to revise the pay structure with effect from 01-01-2006.

My basic pay is Rs 10000 as on 01-01-2006 due to promotion( date of promotion is 01-01-2006) in the scale of 10000-325-15200. Before promotion My basic is Rs 9100 in the scale of 8000-275-13500( old increment date is 01-10-2005). As per sixth pay, My pay in pay band is Rs 18600 ( 1.86 X basic as on 01-01-2006) and Grade pay is Rs. 6600. But our office fixed as follows.

Pay in payband is Rs. 17600 and Grade pay is Rs. 6600. (by considering basic of Rs. 9100)

Friends,
I am not able to concur with my learnd friend Shri Narayanan.
The Rule 13 starats with the words [B]"Fixation of pay ON OR AFTER 01.01.2006"(emphasis supplied).Hence the present case of Shri Vijayan has to be fixed only interms of Rule 13(i), and therefore the Pay has been correctly fixed at 17600.(9100 x1.86 rounded off, grade pay of 5400 is added, for arriving at 3% incremental increase to take care of promotion, and the Grade pay of 6600 is granted apart from 17600).
In my opinion , What Shri Vijayan could have done was taking the promotion on 01.01.2006but opting to remain in the Pre rev scale till the date of next increment, (01.072006). This could have been achieved if the individual availed himself the benefits envisaged under the provisions of Rule 11 of CCS(RP)2008.
This way, he could have safely gone to Rs.10000 scale on 01.01.2006, and taking the Pay in the New Pay Structure from 01.07.2006, would have taken him to 10000 x 1.86 = 18,600 plus grade pay of 6600.
But I am afraid, Shri Vijayan has missed the bus.
(Well, if he had given option as per the opinion expressed herein, he would be smiling now).
Friends may kindly correct if they feel I am wrong.
With regards,

4. ## Promotion in pre-revised scale/fixation of pay in revised structure w.e.f. 1.1.2006

Dear Sirs,

Shri Vijayan may have to exercise his option to fix his pay in the revised structure either with effect from 1.1.2006 or from the date of his promotion, which date is coincidentally happens to be the same 1.1.2006.

(Even in the absence of promotion) in case of increment falling on 1st January in the pre-revised scale, and if he is opting to fix his pay in the revised structure w.e.f. 1.1.2006 then, first his increment will get fixed in the pre-revised scale, with which his pay in the revised structure will be fixed. Accordingly, his pay on promotion in the pre-revised scale need to be fixed first and he may exercise his option to fix his pay in the revised structure which is more beneficial to him. In my view, if his option for fixation of pay on promotion in the pre-revised scale and well as his option for fixing his pay in the revised structure are one and the same, why he cannot get his increment also on 1st July 2006.

Shri Vijayan must be more lucky.

Best Regards.

5. ## Is it a case of wrong option?

Had he opted cpc on a subsequent date from 1.1.06, He would have been benefited? What are the views?
DR.VBP

6. Originally Posted by DR.VBP
Had he opted cpc on a subsequent date from 1.1.06, He would have been benefited? What are the views?
DR.VBP
Dear Sirs,

In case Shri Vijayan is opting for fixing his pay in the revised structure, may be from the date of increment in the pre-revised scale after 1.1.2006,
having opted for fixation of pay on promotion from 1.1.2006, his date of next increment in the pre-revised promoted scale will be 1.1.2007 and the pay in the revised structure will be Rs.19210. The Grade Pay Rs.6600 will become applicable only from 1.1.2007 only. On 1st July 2007, his pay will be Rs.19990. The Grade Pay for the entire year 2006 works out to 79200. His pay on 1.7.2007 will be Rs.19990.

On the contrary if he opts for fixation in revised structure on promotion, viz. from 1.1.2006, his pay on 1.1.2006 will be Rs.18600 with GP Rs.6600.
On 1.7.2006, he will be getting Rs.19360. On 1.7.2007, he will be getting Rs.20140.

Best Regards.

7. Dear friends,

I still believe that Sh Vijayan has not missed the bus and I assure him the bus will not go without him.

He opted for change over on 1.1.2006 to the new pay structure.

Multiplication by 1.86 is the process involved in the switch over.

Therefore, he should be given all the benefits which are eligible on 1.1.06 prior to the change. When the increment due on 1.1.2006 is considered for fixation in the new structure, how can we deny him the benefit (in strict sense 'remuneration) of promotion when he actually performed his duties in the higher post on that date.

The pay in pay band (in the new structure) is 1.86 times of existing pay (switch over formula) and therefore it is clear that no other factors such as increments, promotion, etc. are relied. The existing pay on 1.1.06 should have catered all the legitimate benefits available on 1.1.06 prior to the multiplication failing which the foundation of the new pay structure(ie. existing pay) will become weak.

It may also be noted that in the case of a deffered fixation(on option), the existing pay should have considered all the benefits available on that day. The multiplication takes place thereafter to reach to the new structure.

In the light of the above, I believe that the option exercised by Sh. Vijayan for 1.1.2006 is the best one for him and he will getget Rs.18600/- with GP 6600 w.e.f. 1.1.2006 as I recorded earlier.

Now it is left to him to take the paper and pen. In the back ground of the above reasoning I am sure that he can find out some provisions in the revised pay rules.

With regards.

Narayanan.

8. Dear friends

Here I agree what Shri Naraynan has quoted. Why Shri Vijayan will not get the benefit of promotion on 1/1/06. Definitely he will get. When increment due on 1/1/06 has been allowed in pre revised scale andagain w,e,f, 1/7/06 on completion of six months, then his pay on promotion will be fixed first at Rs.10000/- in pre revised scale and then to its corresponding pay in revised pay band. His deptt. has not fixed his pay as per rules. He will get the benefit of higher pay if he represent against this pay fixation. It is as clear as RO filtered water. He has not mised any bus since his case is not comes under wrong option. It is the fault of his deptt. He must represent his case to get justice. There is no problem in it. Act today.

9. ## Promotion or New Pay Structure which precedes?

Dear Friends,
With due respect to Jjee and Shri Narayanan, I make my further views on the subject.
I wish to draw their attention(which I had earler tried,too) on the following aspects;-
Speaking cronoligically, the individual's promotion took place physically on 1.1.2006 while the CPC Recommendations on Pay were implemented later and the Pay Rules for the Reivised Pay Structure were notitified on 28.09.2008 with retrospective from 01.01.2006.
All promotions that came into effect on 01.01.2006 stand governed under the CCS(Revised Pay)Rules ("Rules", for short). The Rule 13(i) unambiguously mentions that the "promotion On or after 01.01.2006(emphasis supplied) is covered. To me it sounds logic, too, since the there must be a difference between a person who was promoted (to the scale of 10000) on 31.12.2005 and the inndividual (who was promoted on 01.01.2006) in the instant case. While the fitment formula 1.86 is applicable to the former, the later would have his pay on promotion governed under the New Rules.
The arguments of my learned friends appear to be based on the text of Rule 3(2) of the said Rules.
Now comes the hitch. Rule 13(ii) states that the Rules is applicable to Promotions on after 1.1.2006. This implies that the Promotion takes effect only under the current Rules. Now you have to apply the Said Rule 13(ii). If for any reason, Rule 13(ii) runs into conflict with Rule 3(2), then by the principles of Interpretations, the later prevails over the former when two Rules are simultaneously applicable.
The only alternative available to the officer was to opt for pre rev pay till 30.06.2006, in which which case, the officer would have been fixed in the Pay scale of 10000 from 1.1.2006 and automatically, on 1.1.2006, he would have got his pay fixed at Rs.18.600 and Grade pay of 6600.
I conclude with one single question. What is the effect pf the word "on" in the Rule 13(ii) of the said Rules. This aspect may kindly be examined. It may be worth mentioning that in the world of law, every word or number serves a definite purpose, as otherwise the word would be rendered otiose.
Readers may like to comment on the subject.
With Regards,

10. Sir,
In rule no 13. fixation of pay on or after 01-01-2006, it is clearly mentioned that fixation will be done in the case of employees who has promoted from one grade pay to another grade pay in the revised pay structure( effective from 01-01-2006). I have not promoted from one grade pay to another grade pay in the revised pay structure( I have promoted from 5th pay to 6th pay). So this rule is not applicable for those who have promoted on 01-01-2006. In september 13, Finance ministry issued clarification regarding promotion cases. In that, it was mentioned that For promoties after 01-01-2006, How to do fixation.

11. Originally Posted by vijayan
Sir,
In rule no 13. fixation of pay on or after 01-01-2006, it is clearly mentioned that fixation will be done in the case of employees who has promoted from one grade pay to another grade pay in the revised pay structure( effective from 01-01-2006). I have not promoted from one grade pay to another grade pay in the revised pay structure( I have promoted from 5th pay to 6th pay). So this rule is not applicable for those who have promoted on 01-01-2006. In september 13, Finance ministry issued clarification regarding promotion cases. In that, it was mentioned that For promoties after 01-01-2006, How to do fixation.

Dear Shri Vijayan,

I fully agree with you. When you have not shifted to revised payhow the revised pay rules will have a binding on you. Thus, as I said earlier,as in the case of increment falling on 1.1.2006, your promoted pay will get fixed in the pre-revised scale first, (let us say for joke, in the forenoon, and in the afternoon you will get shifted to revised scale) and opt to fix your pre-revised pay from the date of promotion which is coincidentally 1.1.2006.Your option to fix the pay on promotion has already been exercised by you in the pre-revised scale. Hence, the only option you have to exercise is to get your pay fixed in the revised structure from the date of promotion that is fortunately in your case happened to be the same 1.1.2006.

Best Regards.

12. ## Prerev scale 8000 to pre rev scale 10000 on 01.01.2006

Dear friends,
I have carefully studied the views of My learned friend Srrjee.(11.12.2008 1903hrs)
Shree Sunderjee’s argument implies that the cases with Promotion on 1.1.2006 should first be governed by Promotion in Previous Scale and then the Pay fixation should take place.
It may be true in physical terms the promotion was born first and and the OM on CCS (RP)2008 (“Rules”, for short)was issued later. But the Rules are deemed to have come into force on 01.010.2006. So it is as if the Rules were there at the time of actual promotion.
The individual has given his option to come under the Rules on 1.1.2006, that is the date of promotion (and not on the next date of increment, namely 01.07.2006). Thus CCS(RP)Rules 2008 govern such promotion and I hope friends would agree with me on this aspect.
Now, Rule 13(ii) of the Rules squarely covers the case on hand.
Thus, I see logic in the presence of the word “on” in title of the said Rule 13.
I turn to the second proviso to Rule 5 which deals with option for switch over from the date of promotion. The Rule talks of the period between 1.1.2006 and the date of notification(29.08.2008). Whether both days are inclusive is not spelt in the Rule. There, the dictionary meaning has to be taken. OED defines the word, ”between” as period separating two points of time. This implies the two margins are excluded. (This interpretation is subject to legal scrutiny). Thus I am convinced there is no room for exercising Option as suggested.
I refer to Shri Srrjee’s citation of a jovial (in his words) example of opting for New pay structure in the after noon and staying in the pre rev scale in the fore noon. Yes this is possible, in normal circumstances, but Pay on the promoted grade shall not be fixed for the after noon, and it will be deferred to the next day. If a person on promotion joins the new post in the after noon, then the promotion takes effect only from the next day, for the purpose of pay in the promoted grade. (Half a day casual leave is legal. But “half a day emoluments” is unheard of). In any case, as explained supra, there is no room for such option in the instant case by virtue of the deemed existence of the said Rules on 1.1.2006.
To conclude, the only possible remedy lies in deletion of the word “on” in the title of Rule 13. But, in my opinion, the chances are bleak.
The individual, had the choice of remaining in Pre Revised Scale till 30.06.2006. I do not know why friends do not tell any thing on this aspect.
With Regards,

13. Dear friends,

I do not know whether we will have to go so deep in the Rules which were just born. It is a known fact that all rules are not fool proof and give room for denial of legitimate benefits of the individuals. Some words are sufficient to creat problems and we will have to catch it and throw out. Yes, our learned friend Shri Badriji has done - the catching. Now it is Shri Vijayan's duty to act- to throw out.

I would like to further comments on the issue as under:

We have to interpret the rules in the back ground of the accepted pay commission recommendations, the resolution No.1/1/2008-IC and the definitions given under Rule 3 of the CCS(RP) Rules, 2008.

1. At para 2.2.21(i) of 6CPC report which was accepted with certain modification, it is specificallly mentioned that the 'pay drawn as on 1.1.2006' should be taken for multiplication with 1.74 (modified to 1.86)

2. At para (iv) of the resolution dt. 29.8.08, mentioned:

".... the basic drawn as on 1.1.2006 on the existing 5CPC pay scale will be multiplied by a factor of 1.86 ...... This will be the pay in the revised running pay band.

3. At Part-A of Annex-1 of the resolution, it is specifically mentioned that the pay drawn on 1.1.2006 is to multiplied with 1.86.

4. As per the CCS(RP)Rules, 2008, at Rule 3, the definition,

'existing scale' in relation to a Govt. servant means the present scale applicable to the post held by the Govt. Servant as on 1st day of January 06 whether in substantive or officiating capacity.

Further,

1. No option is available for promotion on 1,1,06.
2. The person promoted on 31.12.2005 will get full benefit.
3. The person promoted on 2.1.2006 will get full get full benefit on option with loosing of just one day pay in the new pay structure.
4. All the person promoted 2.1.2006 onwards get the option benefit.

When intention of the govt. is clear it is mentioned at different places, I think it is fit case to represent and to set a precendence.

With regards,

Narayanan.

14. Below is the guideline issued by our office and followed in the fixation.Please clarify whether it is correct or not. If it is wrong what is the next step.
1) Pay fixation for those promoted on 01.01.2006

The employee has to be brought to the new Pay Band first with reference to the basic pay as on 31.12.2005 in the pre-promoted post and then his pay will be re-fixed in the new Pay Band effecting the promotion on 01.01.2006 with reference to the pay so fixed in the new Pay Band in the Pre-promoted post (the principle is that pay revision first in the pre-promoted post, followed by pay fixation in the promoted post).

15. Dear Shri Vijayan,

Please refer to the views expressed by me earlier.

The arguments put forward by the deptt. is not logically correct on the following grounds:

1. There cannot be two faxation on a particular day.
2. The pay drawn as on 1.1.2006 is required to taken account for fixation in the new pay structure.
3. The pay drawn by Shri Vijayan as on 1.1.2006 is Rs.10,000/- in scale of Rs.10000-........ and therefore any other arguments is null and void.

You are requested to bring the error occured in the rule alongwith your grievences.

Regards,

Narayanan.

16. [QUOTE=narayanan;1769]Dear friends,

I do not know whether we will have to go so deep in the Rules which were just born. It is a known fact that all rules are not fool proof and give room for denial of legitimate benefits of the individuals. Some words are sufficient to creat problems and we will have to catch it and throw out. Yes, our learned friend Shri Badriji has done - the catching. Now it is Shri Vijayan's duty to act- to throw out.

Dear friends,
I am sure that we are here to give our views/suggestions/legal remedial measure, if any, available in accordance with the Rules. So, our personal whims or fancies or wishful thinking should not influence our comments/views. If I am wrong Hono'ble members of this August Foruam may put me on the right track.
MY stand that promotion takes effect after the moment of coming into force of the Central Civil Services (Revised Pay Rules) 20089 "rULES", FOR SHORT). Secondly Rule 15 of these Rules may kindly be seen whereby the Erstwhile Pay Rules 1997 (which stood the ground till 31.12.2005) and its predecessors(....1947,1960,1973 1986,) in so far as may apply, have been rendered non-functional save as otherwise provided in the said Rules. For keeping the said Rules 1997, the individual should have given option to be retained in the erstwhile Rules,1997 till the date of next date of increment, that is on 01.07.2006( Shri Vijayan has missed the bus).
Viewed in light of these facts one has to apply the Principles of Fixation envisaged under Rule 13(ii) of the said Rules.
Precisely this is what is portrayed in the Department's Guidelines referrred to in shri Vijayan's review post at 1450 hours this day.
Let me turn to certain views expressed by my beloved friend, Shri Narayanan.these are as follows;-
[SIZE="3"]
1. No option is available for promotion on 1,1,06.
2. The person promoted on 31.12.2005 will get full benefit.
3. The person promoted on 2.1.2006 will get full get full benefit on option with loosing of just one day pay in the new pay structure.
4. All the person promoted 2.1.2006 onwards get the option benefit.[/SIZE3]

My pointwise submissions on these views are as follows;-
(i) Option was very much available.(The individual's next date of increment was `01.07.2006. He could have opted to remain in the Pre rev scale till 30.06.2006).
(ii) Yes. Agreed.
(iii) An inexactitude, in the sencse the individual's next increment will be 01.07.2007, resulting in some monetary loss (unless the individuals revised pay on promotion falls below the minimum of the pay band)To overcome this handicap, such individual should also opt for deferring promotion to 01.07.2007.
(iv) This is covered in my view at (iii) hereinabove.
It gives me great pleasure to note that youngsters like Shri Narayanan evince interest take pain to analyse things for the benefit of the friends in this forum.
With regards,

17. Dear friends,

I would like to comment on the views expressed by Shri Badriji which is reproduced below:
Option was very much available.(The individual's next date of
increment was `01.07.2006. He could have opted to remain in
the Pre rev scale till 30.06.2006).

a. If Shri Vijayan has opted to remain in the pre-revised scale, he can enter to the new pay structure only on the date of next increment ie. on 1.1.2007 . Such option will not help him in any manner.

b. The date 1.7.2006 will not be the date of increment of a person who remained in the pre-revised scale. That date will be applicable only to the person who opted new pay structure from 1.1.06.

I request Shri Vijayan to send copies(extract/scanned) of pay fixation statement, your representation and deptt's reply.

This request is made to fulfill my assurance given earlier.

With regards,

Narayanan.

18. HI All,

I am working in CDAC an autonomusbody of DIT govt of India.

I require help from you regarding my 6 PC pay fixation.

As on 1st Jan 2006 My basic was Rs.9100 [8000-275-scale-group A] and Increment Month was May.

I got promotion on1st April 2006 to 10000-325 Scale and Basic on Apr 2006 was Rs.10000 and Increment month is April.

At present my Basic is Rs.10650.

As per suggetions from Gconnect active memebers i Opted for fixation of pay form date of promotion April 2006.

But now our Organization Accounts dept is fixing my Pay from Jan 2006 and informing that fixation of pay from promotion is not possible.I shown them the Fin dept ciruclation date 13th Spet 2008 on calrification of fixing pay for promotion after 1.1.2006. Please help me what i have to do?
Whther the calrifiaction dated 13th Sept 2008 on fixation of pay after promotion is applicable to automousbodies or not?
Kinldy help me.

Regards
CISCO KING

19. Originally Posted by narayanan
Dear friends,

I would like to comment on the views expressed by Shri Badriji which is reproduced below:
Option was very much available.(The individual's next date of
increment was `01.07.2006. He could have opted to remain in
the Pre rev scale till 30.06.2006).

a. If Shri Vijayan has opted to remain in the pre-revised scale, he can enter to the new pay structure only on the date of next increment ie. on 1.1.2007 . Such option will not help him in any manner.

b. The date 1.7.2006 will not be the date of increment of a person who remained in the pre-revised scale. That date will be applicable only to the person who opted new pay structure from 1.1.06.

I request Shri Vijayan to send copies(extract/scanned) of pay fixation statement, your representation and deptt's reply.

This request is made to fulfill my assurance given earlier.

With regards,

Narayanan.
Dear Friends,
I go direct to Shree Narayanan's comments (A and B refer) for examination herein.
One may kindly go to the origin where Shri Vijayan has told that his increment (annual) was in the month October. Therefore, by opting to remain in the Pre rev scale till 30.06.2006, automatically he would be continuing in the pre rev scale till 30.06.2006. Now, had he excercised the option to have the fixation of pay under CCS(RP)Rules 2008, fromn 1.7.2006, the second proviso to Rule 5 of the said Rules shall apply.
It is as simple as that. In this respect the loss of increment on 1.7.2006 is saved.
(b). The said second proviso to Rule 5 ( or for that matter any provision under the current Pay Rules) does not prohobit increment in the new pay so fixed.
Precisely the very purpose/objective of the provision of such proviso is to enable the Government Servant from saving an increment.
When there is nothng wrong in the Rule (The Rule 15 is duly taken care of, the Rule 3 is duly taken care of what else do we want?).
Unless some new argument supported with legal authority is shown, I do not think I will be interested in continuing any further debate on this particular case.
With regards,

20. Originally Posted by ciscoking
HI All,

I am working in CDAC an autonomusbody of DIT govt of India.

I require help from you regarding my 6 PC pay fixation.

As on 1st Jan 2006 My basic was Rs.9100 [8000-275-scale-group A] and Increment Month was May.

I got promotion on1st April 2006 to 10000-325 Scale and Basic on Apr 2006 was Rs.10000 and Increment month is April.

At present my Basic is Rs.10650.

As per suggetions from Gconnect active memebers i Opted for fixation of pay form date of promotion April 2006.

But now our Organization Accounts dept is fixing my Pay from Jan 2006 and informing that fixation of pay from promotion is not possible.I shown them the Fin dept ciruclation date 13th Spet 2008 on calrification of fixing pay for promotion after 1.1.2006. Please help me what i have to do?
Whther the calrifiaction dated 13th Sept 2008 on fixation of pay after promotion is applicable to automousbodies or not?
Kinldy help me.

Regards
CISCO KING
Dear Ciscokingjee,
I have sent a detailed reply to your private message (a replica of this query).
The entire Set of Rules ( and Part A) are very much applicable to autonomous bodies, in my view. You have every liberty to exercise option envisaged under the Rules.
With regards,
(Note: IThis is the first time, it appears, I have deviated from the normal style of addressing all friends in this Discussion form)

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