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Thread: CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS/SUPPORTING AUTHENTIC REFERENCES etc ON PENSION MATTERS

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  1. #1
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Default CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS/SUPPORTING AUTHENTIC REFERENCES etc ON PENSION MATTERS

    Hi All

    To start, I quote what Mr Jeetendra, Sr Member has put in a thread under Pay Fixation topic/issue of 6th CPC:

    Quote Originally Posted by jitendraacr View Post
    As all of us know that after implementation of 6th CPC, a number of anamolies have come out and we are discussing on these issues in length. Now I request to all members to post any clarification/orders obtained by themselves or by their department, from Ministry of Finance/DoP&T or from any other authentic website(not from bloggers) which is in contrary to present notification/Resolution. This sort of little work will help many of us. May I request all of you to post also your efforts for obtaining these clarifcation and become our torchbearer.
    Thanks in anticipation.
    Consequent to the issue of 6th CPC related pension implementation OMs of 1st Sept and 3rd Oct 2008 of the Deptt of P/PW and also related OMs of MoF, several pensioners may be seeking redressals/ remedies etc on omissions/ anomalies/ disparities/ related aspects.

    ALL RESPONSES LIKE CLARIFICATIONS/ OMs/ ORDERS/LIKE COMMUNICATIONS etc obtained individually or thru their Pensioner bodies RECIEVED from the concerned MINISTRIES & DEPTTS - eg Personnel/ Pension/ Pensioners' Welfare/ other offices including old parent deptts/ ministries if any, MAY PL. BE POSTED & HIGHLIGHTED HERE- so that the same can GIVE US NEW GUIDANCE/ STRATEGY/ IMPETUS.

    (My thanks to Mr Jeetendra for the excellent idea!)

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-10-2008 at 10:47 AM. Reason: minor typing mistakes

  2. #2
    Member kssitaraman is on a distinguished road
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    Default Pension revision under Para 4.2 for Pre-2006 Pensioners

    The Ministry of Finance has yet issued another OM dated 14/10/08 with a ready reckoner for pension revisions under Para 4.2 probably to help out the disbursing banks, this time showing all the three scales of pay viz., IV, V and VI and also requiring the disbursements to be made within a week. This is for information please.

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    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Hi All concerned Pensioners - attn: Pre-1986/1996/2006 retirees:

    Thanks to Mr Sitaraman for pointing out the issue of the OM No 38 37 08/PPW etc dt 14th oct on 6th CPC implementation/revision of pension of pre-2006 pensions/ family pensions.


    POSITIVE ASPECTS:

    Concerned banks etc. have been asked to disburse current arrears/ addl. pension within a week (by 21st oct 2008).

    Concordance tables provided for pre-1996/pre-2006/post-2006 pay-scales/bands for proper fixation BENEFICIALto pensioners. (THIS MAY SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF Pre-1986 Retirees also)

    Illustrations given for guidance.

    Concerned banks etc. to disburse pension/ arrears as per OM of 1st Sep 2008.
    DR amounts also to be added for periods relevant at rates already ordered.

    All actions to be completed within a month (may be before 15th Nov 2008?)

    Guidance has also been given as to the procedure to be followed in cases of missing details like DOB/age/ service details in the earlier PPOs etc and also in case of missing details like DOB among family pensioners.

    (THIS IS HAPPENING IN MANY CASES_ ALL PENSIONERS/ FAMILY PENSIONERS MAY CHECK FOR MISSING DETAILS IN THE RESPECTIVE PPOs AND DECIDE ON THE COURSE OF ACTION TO FOLLOW. BANKS/ POs MAY PLEAD HELPLESSNESS. FRIENDS/ EX. COLLEAGUES/ PENSIONERS' ASSOCIATIONS must come forward to ASSIST aged pensioners/ helpless family pensioners etc.)

    ( Banks etc also have to take action to ensure entries in the Pension Books/ Records and issue necessary Pension Orders with copies to the concerned authorities. Pensioners/ Family Pensioners shd watch/ enquire/ ensure to avoid future gaps!)

    NEGATIVE:

    I WAS HOPING THE ISSUE OF PENSION INJUSTICE THAT HAS BEEN PERPETUATED ( REF: my main thread starting with "Injustice to Pre-2006 pensioners.......etc") WILL BE RESOLVED THRU THIS OM ONLY TO BE DISAPPOINTED! ALL AFFECTED MAY HAVE TO FIGHT & WAIT.

    CORE ISSUE OF DISPARITY ARISING OUT OF BUNCHING PRE-2006 SCALES/BANDS FOR PENSION PURPOSES and RELEGATING THE PARITY TO A LOWER STARTING LEVEL PAY IN THE NEW BUNCHED PAY BAND REMAINS OUTSTANDING.

    DoP/PW and MOF to act fast to undo the damage and injustice.

    vnatarajan

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    Senior Member sudacgwb
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    Talking Arrears to Pensioners - One Installment?

    The OM dated 14/10/2008 at para no: 7 (page 2) ......enhanced pension and ARREARS ARE DISBURSED TO ALL ..... BY 30.11.2008. Does this means the arrears will be disbursed in one installment?

    If, yes, Govt. has rectified the grave mistake of giving arrears to pensioners in two installments.

  5. #5
    Junior Member ranganathan is on a distinguished road
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    the new om of oct 14, does not indicate the removal of the 40% cap already in place for the current year. continuing the trail left by mr Natarajan,; the 14 oct Om does not remedy the misgiving regarding disparity. i should think it rather consolidates and gives a practical shape to this misgiving.the positive aspects are of course there which will speed up the mid-way settlement as per their definition of the minimum pension
    Last edited by ranganathan; 16-10-2008 at 10:04 PM.

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    Member kssitaraman is on a distinguished road
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    Default Thread CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS ETC

    Pensioners including myself are indebted to Sri Natarajan for putting in a nutshell for their info the positive aspects of the Pension Dept's latest clarification.

    As regards the negative side mentioned by him, I take this opportunity to make the following comments, which I hope he will appreciate.

    The Govt must have cleared more or less all the minor doubts that arose in the minds of the Pensioners from the original orders, with its subsequent clarificatory OMs the latest being the one in discussion. Sri Natarajan's case as he has explained in several of the Threads seems to be special, involving even fundamental questions like juniors getting more than the seniors, etc; the juniority/seniority issue has been taken care of as regards serving employees while it appears to have been overlooked in the case of pensioners. This is indeed an anamolous situation requiring urgent and just remedy. The number of pensioners losing their rights and money in this manner must be handful and acceding to their demand by the Govt. cannot be a big burden since the outgo in the event of acceding to the demand must be a fraction of the largesse so kindly granted by the Govt. So I feel Sri Natarajan has a good case at hand for appeal. If Sri Natarajan has already not done so, he may along with others similarly placed, lodge, yes lodge an appeal with the Pension dept. immediately. If I remember correct, the govt. has already set up an Anamolies Committe to function for a year, to consider and dispose of all cases of complaints within a time frame. Pension cases may not take a lot of time and so hopefully he will have a favourable OM exclusively dealing with this issue. So let us hope for the best.

  7. #7
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Default enhanced pension and ARREARS ARE DISBURSED TO ALL .....

    Quote Originally Posted by sudacgwb View Post
    The OM dated 14/10/2008 at para no: 7 (page 2) ......enhanced pension and ARREARS ARE DISBURSED TO ALL ..... BY 30.11.2008. Does this means the arrears will be disbursed in one installment?

    If, yes, Govt. has rectified the grave mistake of giving arrears to pensioners in two installments.
    There may be many pensioners who may not see 2009 April. It will be in the best interest of the pensioners if Government takes a decision to pay arrears in one instalment to pensioners. will the authorities take note of this and do the needful ?

  8. #8
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    hi

    If the DDOs concerned viz - Banks/POs - at least some of them interpret the way we are hoping, it may happen!

    We have to wait and watch for the first news on this when the earliest of the Banks (could be SBI/ its branches/ subsidiaries) act on the 14th Oct 2008 OM and then may realise the contents of it in true colours!

    Best of luck to all!

    vnatarajan

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    Junior Member harryrakhraj is on a distinguished road
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    For what it's worth, I wish to share this bit of information with fellow Pensioners:

    i If your PDA is SBI, you may lodge your complaint with the following:-
    RM R-2 DZO <[email protected]>, CPPC DELHI <[email protected]>
    ii You may also like to lodge your complaint online with <pensionersportal.gov.in>.


    I have lodged my complaint with both the above and am looking forward to their response.
    Last edited by harryrakhraj; 01-12-2008 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear harry
    Nice initiative. I have posted a copy of this in the thread "How Effective is the system of ..................." to have a continuity on realising the emerging "status" of this complaint/ redressal systems, consequent to the load of 6CPC complaints load!
    vnatarajan

  11. #11
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear All concerned,

    This is by way of confirmation/ for information:

    1.On producing the certified details reg my scale of pay at the time of my retire
    ment in May 1997 from my erstwhile Deptt. to my bankers viz Bank of Maharashtra, Besant Ngr Br, Chennai 90, my pension has been fixed at half of the total of the minimum of the Pay Band 37400- 67000 ie Rs 37400 plus grade pay Rs10000 i.e. at Rs 23700 plus DR @16% on it as on date. (less commuted part).

    THE ABOVE FIXATION IS IN TERMS OF THE OM of 14th OCT 2008 of DoP/PW.

    2.Earlier I had already receive my pension based on OMs of 1st Sept/ 3rd Oct 2008 and also arrears thereof in Octobet itself, which was strictly as per the 2.26 formula.

    3. Arrears now arising out of the second fitment or fixation are yet to be worked out and paid.

    4.This is what Banks can do -so far as my case is concerned. May be in similar cases also by other banhs/ POs.

    Any grievances has to be now addressed in real/ individual terms to the authorities/ remedial channels.

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 04-12-2008 at 09:37 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member dnaga57
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    Thumbs up

    Congrats -= Limited though Mr VN.
    It is now left to get the 'revised pension corresponding to the prevised scale fitted in Pay Band'. Hope this happens too.
    You do not have the 20 year anamoly. For them, applicability of 20 yrs - full pension will be the next step.
    Let us move on...

  13. #13
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Mr Naga / All,

    What is emerging is as follows.

    PB-4 scale pensioners have started receiving the so-called revised pension whereever fixation was needed by the BANKS, ie beyond the 2.26 formala.

    A.Pre-2006 Pensioners in the pre-revised scale of 14300- 18300 are getting revised pension at 23050 plus DR as applicable ( commutation amount to be deducted where applicable). They lose the benefit of increments as all increments drawn by them from 14300 onwards till 18300 (& beyond?) have no value as theses increments are bunched together to bring all of them to the minimum level.

    B.Pre-2006 Pensioners in the pre-revised scale of 18400-22400 are getting revised pension at 23700 plus DR as applicable (commutation amount to be deducted where applicable).
    (1)They lose the benefit of all increments drawn within their pre-revised scale ie from 18400 to 22400 (& beyond?) (2) They also stand to lose on account of merging of several scales from the top one S-30 (22400-24400) down upto S-24 (14300-18300) in terms of their basic pension being downslided to the level of 14300 (minimum of the pay-band equivalent at 37400) for revised pension purposes, with a slight cosmetic offering of grade pay at 10000 instead of 8700/8900 etc for their immediate lower scale pensioners.

    C. I have not yet got the details of S-30 category so far.

    D. I am not sure how many of the other scales of pensioners are affected! Awaiting some feed back.

    vnatarajan.

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    Senior Member ramanrao60 is on a distinguished road
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    Default pension revision to CAB absorbees

    I was, on permanent absorption in central autonomous body transferred to pension establishment after putting in 12yrs-was drawing 1760 pay in 1640-2900 scale-which was upgraded to 2000-later initially sanctioned min pension 375 and revised to 1275-commuted 100%-restored 425 pm(1/3) after 15 yrs-what’s my entitlement now?
    friends and peers/seniors Please help

  15. #15
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Question CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS/SUPPORTING AUTHENTIC REFERENCES etc ON PENSION MATTERS

    Most of us have received the revised pension and arrears. I wish to draw the attention of all pre-2006 pensioners about the endorsement to PPO issued to pensioners. can any one throw light on endorsement required on the PPO held by the pensioner on revised pension and family pension granted prior to 6 CPC recommendations and its implementation(in the form of corrigendam to original PPO). Is it necessary to get the revised pension/family pension in the pensioner's copy? and if yes who will do this. According to 14th Oct 2008 letter, endorsement is to be done by disbursing banks under intimation to the respective Pay and accounts office who will verify the same. What about the pensioner's copy?

    can any one clarify?.

    R S Subba rao

  16. #16
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Default CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS/SUPPORTING AUTHENTIC REFERENCES etc ON PENSION MATTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by subba Rao R S View Post
    Most of us have received the revised pension and arrears. I wish to draw the attention of all pre-2006 pensioners about the endorsement to PPO issued to pensioners. can any one throw light on endorsement required on the PPO held by the pensioner on revised pension and family pension granted prior to 6 CPC recommendations and its implementation(in the form of corrigendam to original PPO). Is it necessary to get the revised pension/family pension in the pensioner's copy? and if yes who will do this. According to 14th Oct 2008 letter, endorsement is to be done by disbursing banks under intimation to the respective Pay and accounts office who will verify the same. What about the pensioner's copy?

    can any one clarify?.

    R S Subba rao

    It appears to me that no pensioner is serious about getting revised PPO or wants to wait for some more time. This is to draw the attention once again. I understand that P & T pensioners are getting the revised PPO or endorsement on PPO. I could not get correct info. Can Shri V natarajan or Shri S C maheswari throw some light on this?
    Subba Rao R S
    Last edited by subba Rao R S; 20-01-2010 at 08:27 PM. Reason: some spelling mistakes

  17. #17
    Senior Member G.Ramdas is on a distinguished road
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    Default Revision of PPO

    Dear Sh. Subba Rao,
    It is not correct to say that the pensioners are not interested in getting revised PPO from the CPAO or other administrative authorities. Most of them are not aware of the procedure.I have already got my PPO revised including incorporation the revised pay scale and date of birth of my spouse, which details were not available in the earlier PPO( It is a different matter that in that process my name has been mis-spelt in the revised PPO needing yet another amendment!)
    In case of civil pensioners a request has to be made for amendment to the COA of the Dept/Ministry who in turn will take up with the CPAO for formal revision/amdmt of the PPO.For Rlys this function is done by the respective Rlys.
    The Pensioners should check up whether details of their last pay scale, its revision after tthe 6CPC, date of birth of the pensioner and his/her spouse are avaialable in the PPO. If any of these details are missing, it is better to request for amendment/revision

    G.Ramdas

  18. #18
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Default CLARIFICATIONS/RELATED ORDERS/SUPPORTING AUTHENTIC REFERENCES etc ON PENSION MATTERS

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Ramdas View Post
    Dear Sh. Subba Rao,
    It is not correct to say that the pensioners are not interested in getting revised PPO from the CPAO or other administrative authorities. Most of them are not aware of the procedure.I have already got my PPO revised including incorporation the revised pay scale and date of birth of my spouse, which details were not available in the earlier PPO( It is a different matter that in that process my name has been mis-spelt in the revised PPO needing yet another amendment!)
    In case of civil pensioners a request has to be made for amendment to the COA of the Dept/Ministry who in turn will take up with the CPAO for formal revision/amdmt of the PPO.For Rlys this function is done by the respective Rlys.
    The Pensioners should check up whether details of their last pay scale, its revision after tthe 6CPC, date of birth of the pensioner and his/her spouse are avaialable in the PPO. If any of these details are missing, it is better to request for amendment/revision

    G.Ramdas
    Thanks for the info. I have taken up the ammendment to PPO with CPAO, CCDA(DRDO) and Dept of Pensioner wellfare already with no positive reply from them. Also I have written to SBI on this. The office where I retired have told that they do not come in pictutre for the Ammendement of PPO(based on the revision of pension). My effort will continue and request other pensioners to pay their attention on this also.

    Once again thanks to you for the info

    Subba Rao R S

  19. #19
    Junior Member Dr.M.Jauhari is on a distinguished road
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    Default Details of pay scale etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Ramdas View Post
    Dear Sh. Subba Rao,
    It is not correct to say that the pensioners are not interested in getting revised PPO from the CPAO or other administrative authorities. Most of them are not aware of the procedure.I have already got my PPO revised including incorporation the revised pay scale and date of birth of my spouse, which details were not available in the earlier PPO( It is a different matter that in that process my name has been mis-spelt in the revised PPO needing yet another amendment!)
    In case of civil pensioners a request has to be made for amendment to the COA of the Dept/Ministry who in turn will take up with the CPAO for formal revision/amdmt of the PPO.For Rlys this function is done by the respective Rlys.
    The Pensioners should check up whether details of their last pay scale, its revision after tthe 6CPC, date of birth of the pensioner and his/her spouse are avaialable in the PPO. If any of these details are missing, it is better to request for amendment/revision

    G.Ramdas
    Dear Shri Ramdas,
    I should be grateful to know the authority to be approached for incorporating details regarding pay scale and date of birth of the spouse.I retired in 1996 and my PPO does not contain these details.In the absence of pay scale,I had a hard time getting my pension revised as per 6th CPC.Dr.M.Jauhari

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