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Thread: Injustice to pre-2006 pensioners in old s-29 & 30 scales(18400-22400 & 22400-24500)

  1. #1481
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    Mr Natrajan what is the staus of the full parity case? Any progress on that front. No updates on this thread for a while.

  2. #1482
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    DEAR SHARMA JI/ Other Old Pensioners who have been deprived of Full Parity/ Last Pay Drawn based pension,

    I AM WAITING TO SEE THE SCPC MOD PARITY ISSUE BEING RESOLVED SOON.

    FIGHT AGAINST INJUSTICE HAS NO END.

    FULL PARITY CASE NEEDS "OVERWHELMING SUPPORT" FROM ALL RETIREES - PRE 1986/ PRE 1996/PRE 2006 AND / POSSIBLY SOON THE "INNOCENT PRE 2016" SOON AFTER 7 CPC AND IF I GET AN ADVANCE INDICATION HERE, CERTAINLY THE ISSUE WOULD BE TAKEN UP WITH ALL SERIOUSNESS.

    IN THE MEANWHILE, THOSE WHO WANT THIS ISSUE TO BE TAKEN UP MAY SEND EMAILS TO SHRI SANT BHUSHAN LAL( [email protected]) HON SECRETARY OF CGSAGPA CURRENTLY, WHO MAY COORDINATE A NEW FORMATION SOON FOR THE PURPOSE.

    PL CONVEY TO ALL INTERESTED.

    vnatarajan

    Last edited by vnatarajan; 12-11-2014 at 08:09 AM.

  3. #1483
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    Default Just in case

    May be a reasoned letter pointing out the contradiction betvveen accepting the judgement in case of '600('Light Brigade )of Pensioners & non-acceptance in other cases vvill help

  4. #1484
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    @RPG,

    THE ABOVE TOPIC IS A DIFFERENT STORY AND NEEDS A STRONG FOUNDATION AND SUBMISSIONS AS NEEDED WILL BE PRECURSORs. WE NEED MASS SUPPORT- we are raising the issue before 7 CPC. Fence setters and non-starters do not help us. EXCEPT FOR BHARAT PENSIONERS SAMAJ, AIFPA (CHENNAI) RRSCWS, RREWA, other federations and associations had been of not much help. MANY OF THEM HEADED BY RETD PENSIONERS HAVE BEEN PAYING LIP SYMPATHY. ......

    Already the old matter (I MEAN scpc mod parity) is in finality stage in Legal venues at PB CAT where non-litigants are filing a no of petitions (17 12 2014) and at HSC (2 12 2014) where in addition to 3 SLPs which are coming up for Oral Submission (sure to be dismissed as OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM HAD BEEN SO FAR UNFALTERING IN THIS FAMOUS OR RATHER INFAMOUS UNAUTHORISED TAMPERING OF CAB DECISION CASE in upholding values of truth and fairness in imparting justice) and in addition there will be one more POWERFUL INTERVENTION PETITION WHICH WILL NOT BE EASY for the adversaries to overcome.....

    IN THE END TRUTH AND JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL ....after all I have to end this long SIX YEAR story with an epilogue.....

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 12-11-2014 at 03:53 PM.

  5. #1485
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    Default Hope

    Thanks. You surely kept the fight & hope alive. Lavv vvill deliver justice as it has already done in case of the 661 pensioners. As the political scene has changed hence my suggestion

  6. #1486
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    Mr Natrajan thank you for the update i have one doubt in OA 655/2010 CAT had given 'pay in the payband' so is that not full parity? this can be interpreted as actual pay.
    Last edited by ssharma; 13-11-2014 at 10:03 AM.

  7. #1487
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Shri Sharmaji,

    OUR PETITION WAS ONLY FOR MODIFIED PARITY.

    HON JUDGES ALSO HAD CLEARLY CLARIFIED THE SAME IN THE OPENING PARAGRAPHS .
    .
    EXCEPT THAT THEIR JUDGMENT ADDRESSED THE PAN PRE 2006 PENSIONERS WRT APPLICATION OF CORRECT SCPC MOD PARITY, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE MUCH MILEAGE OUT OF IT. WE DID NOT STRESS ON THE LEGAL ISSUES MUCH.

    WE CAN OF COURSE MOUNT A SEPARATE OA AFRESH ON THE "PAY IN THE PAY BAND " ISSUE BY CHALLENGING THE OM OF 2 SEPT 2008" PARA 4.0/4.1/4.2 WHICH WAS MADE EAPPLICABLE TO THE POST 2006 PENSIONERS (immediately after the issue of OM dtd 1 9 2008 only to hoodwink the old pensioners, reduce their pensions)- THIS APPROACH IS MALAFIDE - A GROSS DISCRIMINATION- AS "LIBERALISED FORMUALTION" NOTIFIED THRU OM OF 2 SEPT 2008 FOR ONLY POST 2006 PENSIONERS ARE GOVERNED BY THE SAME SET OF CCS PAY & PENSION RULES AS THE PRE 2006 RETIREES , AND THE BENEFITS OF SUCH LIBERALISATION (calling the Om of 2 Set 2008 as a new scheme has no meaning) CAN NOT BE DENIED TO THE PRE 2006 PENSIONERS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY RETIRED EARLIER. CUT-OFF DATE OF 1 1 2006 PRESCRIBED IS "UNCONSTITUTIONAL". GOVT CAN NOT DEFEND SUCH MANIPULATIONS IN ANY WAY. THUS THE EARLIER FORMUALTION MADE THRU OM DT 1 9 2008/ FURTHER UNAUTHORISED AMENED IN NOT CORRECT AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    We need massive support/ strong team effort.

    in the meanwhile , PRE 2016 RETIREES MUST GET EDUCATED/ GET ALERTED BY NOW AND SHOULD NOT PLAY SAME-SIDE GOAL.They must get prepared for the new MOD PARITY ISSUE that may come up after 7CPC recos.......

    Hope they realise and act in advance.

    vnatarajan

    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-11-2014 at 05:02 AM.

  8. #1488
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    Mr. Natrajan my suggestion is that we go with an economical younger lawyer who we guide fully and so save on the money. we don't need to hire a senior advocate for this matter since members like you can guide the younger lawyer fully. We will also not require a large group in such a scenario. 10-15 people contributing Rs 10000 should be enough to start the case and keep it alive for next 1 year.

    I humbly suggest that we dont wait for mod parity and file this case right now.
    Last edited by ssharma; 13-11-2014 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #1489
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    PL CHK SOME CAT JUDGMENTS IN SHRI ATMA SINGH'S/ KAILASH CH VARMA'S CASES.......the judgment itself had to be somewhat moderated because of the precedent OA 655/ 2010 judgment which addressed only mod parity.......we need a new powerful CAT verdict on the issue.... SOME YOUNGER GROUPS CAN GO AHEAD......

    vnatarajan

    (Shri Sundarar can post some of the above CAT Chandigarh verdicts- which addressed more or less the LPD based equality between the pre and post 2006 pensioners.....)
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 14-11-2014 at 06:16 AM.

  10. #1490
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    I have a suggestion.

    Issue raised by Sharmaji and the amplifications from Natarajanji are concerns to be agitated and resolved.
    Can these anomalies and incongruities be addressed and taken up with 7 th CPC--an Apex body to ameliorate the sufferings of pensioners.
    How does one go about ?

    Imayan

  11. #1491
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    we should craft the petition as a fundamental right violation instead of merely butting against OMs - such as right to equality therefore file the case directly in supreme court. After all last pay drawn based pension is the most logical - even more so than mod parity.

    Mr natrajan if you can arrange for a draft submission based on FR violation it will be most proper, we can file it right away without collecting any funds.
    Last edited by ssharma; 14-11-2014 at 10:12 PM.

  12. #1492
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    Parity in pension that OROP implies can not be a legal issue. It is basically a social issue. Even if the 7th Pay Commission recommends it is not binding on the Government. A case can be made once it is accepted for the Armed Forces.

  13. #1493
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    DEAR FRIENDS,

    LAST PAY DRAWN ENSURES MANY THINGS.

    IT IS A MATTER OF RIGHT OF INDIVIDUAL PENSIONER WHOSE PENSION IS GOVERNED BY STATUTORY RULES OF PAY WHILE IN SERVICE AND PENSION AFTER RETIREMENT.

    SUCH PAY AND PENSIONS HAVE STIPULATIONS OF MANDATORY CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS GPF WHILE IN SERVICE BY THE EMPLOYEE
    AND ON RETIREMENT IT IS MANDATORY THAT GOVT REPAYS THE PRINCIPLE WITH SOME INTEREST ( SOME AMOUNTS EVEN BEFORE DUE TO VALID REASONS AS PERMANENT WITHDRAWALS) AND THE "PENSION" AS THE "REPAYMENT OF THE GOVT'S MATCHING CONTRIBUTION.

    NONE - PARTICULARLY HIGHER ECHELONS- CAN SELECTIVELY BE MANADATED TO DRAW MORE RATE OF PENSION THAN THE LOWER ECHELONS. This is the current practice, which is unethical, unfair, unlawful and unjustified. It is cheating.

    Such practice by govt IS AGAINST ALL RULES / ART 14 -16 etc OF CONSTITUTION.

    PENSION HAS NO SEPARATE DEFINITION EXCEPT AS A RATIO OF "PAY OF THE PENSIONER", LAST DRAWN BY HIM WHILE IN SERVICE/JUST BEFORE RETIREMENT IN THE SCALE OF THE POST FROM WHICH HE RETIRED.

    SUCH PAY DEPENDS UPON HIS LPD, SCALE OF PAY OF THE POST HELD BY HIM AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT, viz WHICH AGAIN DEPEND ON HIS LENGTH OF SERVICE IN THE POST/ SCALE/ GRADE ETC.

    PAY AND PENSION HAVE TO BE POVIDED IN BUDGET ON SAME EQUAL FOOTING AND NO "SELF -INFLICTING" PENSIONER SHOULD THINK THAT PAYMENT OF CORRECT PENSION IS A BURDEN TO THE EXCHEQUER. SUCH PERSONS/PENSIONERS MUST STOP PASSING SUCH REMARKS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT IS CG PENSION OF THOSE WHO ARE GPF BASED. If they feel they have been given excess pension, let them give to charity. NOT ENCOURAGE THE BACKDOOR/ UNFAIR -DISCRIMINATIVE- SKEWED POLICIES OF GOVT. / BABUDOM WHICH NEED BE CORRECTED IN TIME.

    YOU WILL NOW REALISE WHY "GPF" WAS GOT RID OFF AND WHY "CPf ' WAS BROUGHT IN AND THE NPS FOR CG SERVANTS WEF 1 1 2004.

    ANOTHER POINT:

    IN FACT, IF YOU ALL PUT IN YOUR BRAINS, AND ANALYSE:

    EVEN THE CORRECT MODIFIED PARITY IS NOTHING BUT 100 % NEUTRALISATION OF DR BEING MERGED WITH PAY , AT THAT POINT OF TIME.

    IT TAKES THE OLD PENSIONER'S PENSION TO MINIMUM OF THE PAY IN THE PAY BAND, IRRESPECTIVE OF HIS LAST PAY DRAWN IN THE SCALE OF PAY OF THE POST FROM WHICH HE RETIRED, A PAY BAND SYSTEM TRIES TO DEPRIVE THE OLD PENSIONER THIS PRIVILEGE OF HIS PENSION BEING FULLY/INEGRALLY/LEGALLY LINKED TO HiS LAST APY DRAWN. HOW CAN FOR CE THE OLD PENSIONER WHO NEVER WAS PAID THE PAY IN THROUGH SUCH A SYSTEM OR SCHEME?

    SO/ HOWEVER- EVEN IF OLFD PENSIONERS ARE PREPARED TO RECONCILE - IT IS ONLY THE "PAY IN THE PAY BAND" CORRESPONDING TO PENSIONERS' LAST PAY DRAWN IN HIS PRE-REVISED SCALE OF APY OF THE POST HELD BY HIM THAT CAN DO LITTLE REAL JUSTICE.

    IF DONE SO, THIS IS THE "FITMENT TABLE BASED PENSION".

    BUT REAL EQUALITY IN TERMS OF ART 14 AND REAL RECOGNITION FOR THE "EQUAL SERVICE" ONE HAS RENDERED PRIOR TO RETIREMENT CAN ONLY BE JUSTIFIED IF "SAME PENSION" IS GIVEN "FOR SAME RANK OF PENSIONERS" FOR "SAME LENGTH OF SERVICE
    RENDRED IN THAT SCALE"......

    ARE NOT THE ELITES/ HIGHER ECHELONS WITH "FIXED PAY" GET THEIR PENSIONS ON
    "LAST PAY DRAWN" BASIS ? WHY COULD NOT THEY BE GIVEN A 2.26 MF PENSION AS MANY OLD PENSIONERS WERE ASKED TO BE CONTENT WITH?

    All discriminations will go only with the UTOPIAN "OROP".

    But now 68-72 yrs age group/ pre 2016 pensioners must gear up - PLAN THE STRATEGY - to fight for the LPD Bases Pension....
    ....
    vnatarajan




    Last edited by vnatarajan; 15-11-2014 at 10:48 AM.

  14. #1494
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    Constitutional Provision of equality does not provide legal base for OROP. There vvas no MAP at 50% of nevv equivalent pay scale before the Fifth Pay Commission

  15. #1495
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    CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS CAN NOT CITE THE "MERITS" OF SPECIFIC CASES.

    IT IS FOR THE "MERITS" OF THE CASES TO substantiate and PROVE VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS .

    IF PRINCIPLES OF EQUALITY ARE OFFENDED , THEN POWERFUL ARGUMENTS CAN BE MOUNTED.

    IN THE UTOPIAN OROP PHILOSOPHY ,FOR EG:, IF TODAY A C/GOVT PENSIONER OF S29 GRADE RETIRING WITH 10 STAGES OF INCREMENTS GETS 50 % OF LAST EMOLUMENTS DRAWN AS PENSION, THE OLD PENSIONER OF SAME GRADE ANS SAME LENGTH OF SERVICE ALSO MUST GET SAME PENSION.......

    OTHERWISE ART 14 OF CONSTITUTION GETS OFFENDED.

    MAY BE IT IS TOO MUCH FOR ASKING.....

    SO THE SOLUTION LIES IN THE "FITMENT TABLES BEING APPLIED" FOR A "MODERATED LPD " APPROACH.....P & H HC CASE HAS TO BE WATCHED ON 15 DEC 2014 A THE NOTICE FOR MOTION IS ISSUED.

    vnatarajan.

  16. #1496
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    all my esteemed colleagues please don't consider this as a utopian ideal. this is BASIC justice and basic FR violation. shri natrajan i request you to send your last post with some fine tuning as an application addrssed directly to CJI on his website bypassing all lawyers. This is proper channel to get FR violations addressed. Let us see what happens.

  17. #1497
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    NONE OF US FROM CGSAGPA CAN SEND NOW. WE ARE STILL IN LEGAL PROCESS DIRECTLY.

    IT IS FOR OTHER LEADERS/ FEDERATIONS/ ASSOCIATIONS TO TAKE ON FORWARD THE STRUGGLE LEGALLY OR POLITICALLY FOR WHICH WE HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION AND EVEN GOT A COMMON VERDICT FROM PB CAT and brought the verdict to a "finality" at least wrt CGSAPA because of the divisive multiple SLP technology adopted by the adversaries..

    I AM HAPPY FEW NON-LITIGNATS HAVE ALREADY ACTED AND FILED/ ARE FILING QUITE A FEW MAs IN CAT- mainly to claim for the "ARREARS" which are also due to such similarly aggrieved old pensioners. IT IS SIMPLE CASE FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW AND MOUNT PRESSURE ON THE CONCERNED AUTHORITIES .

    EVEN IN HSC, THE AVENUE OF "INTERVENTION APPLICATION" MAY BE ON .....TO INTERVENE IN THE 3 SLPs WHICH ARE BEING CITED AS THE "INSULATION" ( SAY REASON) FOR "NOT" EXTENDING JUSTICE TO ALL PRE 2006 AGGRIEVED SEGMENTS.

    EVEN THE 661 - QUITE A GOOD NO ARE YET TO GET THE ARREARS. Pension Paying Banks are delaying in quite a few cases without reason .....we have to struggle....

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 17-11-2014 at 10:47 AM.

  18. #1498
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    shri natrajan i believe the FR approach is entirely separate from the current under litigation matter. it should not be a hurdle. i also think we need your expert leadership. The next generation will come when it has to come let us continue the good work.

  19. #1499
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    FR route had been tried long back. Hon Prez of India is the ultimate authority. It is a disaster....

    Sjri G Ramdas , one of my close associates and Vice-President of the forum of which I am the President had appealed pointing out none can REDUCE HIS PENSION ASPER FR EXCEPT THE HON PRESIDENT OF INDIA that too only for something like antinational -security- terrorism activity ....

    AFTER FEW MONTHS, THE PREZ WAS HAPPY TO INFORM THAT HIS CASE HAD BEEN SETTLED AS HE GOT A NEW S30 SCALE IN THE INTERIM PERIOD.

    I tried my luck. THE PAPER HAD DISAPPEARED IN THE BOTTOMLESS WP BASKET OF THE OFFICE OF THE PREZ!!!

    I had tried the National Human Rights Commission. My appeal was rejected under Section 9/ some section like that.......No human rights had been violated......ALL MY RESEARCH ON HUMAN RIGHTS WENT WASTE......

    SO ALL THE AVENUES HAD BEEN TRIED EXHAUSTED AND THOSE WHO WANT TO TRY AGAIN, THEY MAY DO SO.

    Some of these applications are available in full in the old pages of this thread.

    NEW MAs ARE BEING FILED - A GROUP OF 250 PRE 2006 PENSIONERS UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF SHRI A RAJAGOPALAN/ SHRI PK RANGANATHAN - (pioneers of this struggle along with me) are in the lead. They are as much experienced as me in this game ...and they are doing what is appropriate at this point of time. They have a few Pre 2006 S29 Pensioners with legal background/ practicing in legal venues to ensure legal inputs.......

    vnatarajan

  20. #1500
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    thanks for the inputs shri natrajan. this is fairly disappointing to hear but nevertheless we have to continue the battle. its heartening to know new MAs are being filed and pensioners are joining in.

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