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Thread: PB 4 for S 21,22 and 23 V CPC scales retirees

  1. #101
    Junior Member goverdhanvalasa is on a distinguished road
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    what is the latest position after 17/10/2014

  2. #102
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Default PB 4 for S 21,22 and 23 V CPC scales retirees

    Quote Originally Posted by goverdhanvalasa View Post
    what is the latest position after 17/10/2014
    As usual case adjourned to 05th Nov 2014.

    Subba Rao R S

  3. #103
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    All the three cases adjourned to 7.11.2014 (friday) as per the hon. Cat
    pr bench delhi cause list status of 5.11.2014.

  4. #104
    Junior Member goverdhanvalasa is on a distinguished road
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    Default Case in Cat

    Thank u sir for the latest.Let us wait for the development on 7/11/14
    Last edited by goverdhanvalasa; 06-11-2014 at 11:03 PM.

  5. #105
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by goverdhanvalasa View Post
    Thank u sir for the latest.Let us wait for the development on 7/11/14
    Adjourned to 10/11/2014 (Monday).

  6. #106
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by goverdhanvalasa View Post
    thank u sir for the latest.let us wait for the development on 7/11/14
    adjourned to 1.12.2014 pl.

  7. #107
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Thumbs up Cause list of 1st december 2014

    Daily cause list
    central administrative tribunal
    principal bench
    new delhi
    list of cases to be heard on monday the 1st december 2014
    court no : 2
    hon'ble mr. G. George paracken member (j)
    hon'ble mr. Shekhar agarwal member (a)

    at 10:30 am

    part heard matters

    33.
    O.a./971/2012
    pension
    m.a./1644/2014
    s n dixit
    -v/s-
    r s gujral
    b k barera
    dr. D.c.vohra
    --------------------
    m.k. Bhardwaj
    h.k.gangwani

    with
    o.a./4130/2013
    s k balasubramaniam
    -v/s-
    m/o finance
    soumyajit pani
    --------------------
    rajesh katyal

    34............

    35.o.a./789/2013
    pay fixation
    h v dasu & others
    -v/s-
    m/o finance & others
    somyajit pani
    --------------------
    rajeev kumar
    rajesh katyal

  8. #108
    Senior Member Gopal Krishan is on a distinguished road
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    Adjourned to 13th Jan, 2015
    Gopal Krishan

  9. #109
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default Adjourned to 13.1.2015

    All the three cases at hon. Cat pr bench delhi adjourned to 13.1.2015

  10. #110
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    It looks that the case at CAT Delhi Pr bench is coming to an end. I understand that the order is reserved in respect all the 3 cases. Date of of pronouncement of judgment is not known. Hope justice will be bestowed on us.

    Subba Rao R S

  11. #111
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    CONGRATS IN ADVANCE.

    "RESERVED" NORMALLY PUTS THE RESPONDENTS (HERE U KNOW WHO THEY ARE) ON THE BACK-SEAT....

    LET US SEE.

    vnatarajan

  12. #112
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnatarajan View Post

    CONGRATS IN ADVANCE.

    "RESERVED" NORMALLY PUTS THE RESPONDENTS (HERE U KNOW WHO THEY ARE) ON THE BACK-SEAT....

    LET US SEE.

    vnatarajan
    Shri V natarajan,

    Thanks for the support.

    Needless to mention that your back up support and timely advise has brought the case to this stage. Another person you may know already is Shri S S Ramachandran,(along with the team at Delhi) and Former Secy Gen AICCPA and now adviser to BPS has taken the lead in this case and cr3edit goes to him.

    Subba Rao R S

  13. #113
    Junior Member goverdhanvalasa is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by subba Rao R S View Post
    Shri V natarajan,

    Thanks for the support.

    Needless to mention that your back up support and timely advise has brought the case to this stage. Another person you may know already is Shri S S Ramachandran,(along with the team at Delhi) and Former Secy Gen AICCPA and now adviser to BPS has taken the lead in this case and cr3edit goes to him.

    Subba Rao R S
    IT IS A SWEET NEWS.Let us hope justice prevails

  14. #114
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    WHAT IS THE OUTCOME?

    I HEAR THE OUTCOME IS NOT ENCOURAGING.
    PL CONFIRM. JUDGMENT RESERVED 13 JAN 2015. PRONOUNCED ON 29 JAN 2015.
    SUBJECTIVE ARGUMENTS MIGHT DISSUADE HON ANGELS TO BE FAVOURABLE ON SOME OCCASIONS.

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 29-01-2015 at 08:58 AM.

  15. #115
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    For inf please,


    It is learnt that this case judgement is being pronounced to-day and the judgement is not favourable to us.


    subba Rao R S

  16. #116
    Senior Member vnatarajan is on a distinguished road
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    DEAR CONCERNED,

    HON JUDGES HAD TO GO DEEP INTO THE PROBLEM BECAUSE OF THE INHOMOGENITY OF THE PETITIONERS WRT THEIR QULAIFICATIONS, EXPERIENCE, NATURE OF DUTIES, DIVERSE DEPARTMENTS , ETC ETC AND SO LOT OF SUBJCETIVE REASONING. ARGUMENTS ARE INVOLVED.

    May have to approach Hon HC for justice.....on law/ legality....

    A FEW PARAGRAOPHS AT THE END OF THE JUDGMETS ARE REPRODUCED HERE:

    Link: http://judis.nic.in/judis_cat/CaseNo_Cat_Result.aspx

    QUOTE:

    Central Administrative Tribunal
    Principal Bench, New Delhi.

    OA-971/2012
    MA-1644/2014
    with
    OA-789/2013
    OA-4130/2013

    Reserved on : 13.01.2015.

    Pronounced on : 29.01.2015.

    Honble Mr. G. George Paracken, Member (J)
    Honble Mr. Shekhar Agarwal, Member (A)

    .................................................. ...............

    15. In our view, the approach adopted by the learned Single Judge and Division Bench is clearly erroneous. It is well settled that the doctrine of equal pay for equal work can be invoked only when the employees are similarly situated. Similarity in the designation or nature or quantum of work is not determinative of equality in the matter of pay scales. The Court has to consider the factors like the source and mode of recruitment/appointment, qualifications, the nature of work, the value thereof, responsibilities, reliability, experience, confidentiality, functional need, etc. In other words, the equality clause can be invoked in the matter of pay scales only when there is wholesale identity between the holders of two posts.

    In the above mentioned cases Honble Supreme Court has pointed out the limitation of the Courts in determining the issue of pay parity and has observed that it requires an Expert Body to do so. It cannot be done by self serving affidavits or counter affidavits. Further, they have laid down that such parity can be granted only after considering the nature or quantum of work, source and mode of recruitment/appointment, qualifications, responsibilities, reliability, experience and other functional needs, etc. Further, they have stated that this principle can be invoked only if there is wholesale identity between the two groups.

    19. In the instant case it is admitted position that applicants are much junior to those with whom they are seeking parity namely those working in S-24 and higher grades. Such incumbents would be having different nature of duties and responsibilities, would be different in experience level, would have come through different methods of recruitment/appointment and would be discharging different duties all together. In fact, the applicants themselves are not homogenous group working in different grades, having different qualification and experience etc. As such, their claim for parity with those in S-24 to S-27 grades is not sustainable.
    20. In their reply the respondents have also stated the circumstances under which it had become necessary to tinker with the report of the Pay Commission and place S-24 to S-27 in PB-4 instead of PB-3 resulting in jump in their benefits. The respondents have also asserted that Pay Commission is a recommendatory body and it is not incumbent on the Government to accept its recommendations in toto, and that they have a right to modify the same before implementation wherever considered necessary for administrative reasons or otherwise. This contention of the respondents has not been disputed by the applicants themselves. We also find merit in the same.
    21. In view of the above, we find that there is no merit in this O.A. and the same is dismissed. No costs.
    22. A copy of this order be placed in OA-789/2013 and OA-4130/2013 also.


    Member (A) Member (J)
    ----------------------------------------------------

    vnatarajan
    Last edited by vnatarajan; 29-01-2015 at 09:07 AM.

  17. #117
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundarar View Post
    A second alternative is to adopt a M/F of 3.2 ( which was used for S-24) for all the V CPC Scales from S-1 to
    S-23.


    Our thanks to Shri MVJRji and Shri RSSRji for detailed inputs with alternative solution. The pre-revised scales S-24, 25, 31, 32 and 33 got 3+ as the actual MF. Thus, the alternate solution suggested above need to cover all the remaining scales including 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30 even..



    "Nakara decision directed parity in the principle of calculation of pension"

    But, in the instant case of all remaining scales cited above, parity in the principle of calculation of pension even within the homogenous class of pre-2006 pensioners, who form a single homogenous group alongwith their post-2006 counterpart, is yet to take place.

    Whether the formula adopted for computation of pension of all pensioners is the same? Yes but only to the extent of revised basic pension under para 4.1 of OM dated 1.9.2008. Whereas, the para 4.2 of OM dated 1.9.2008 supercedes para 4.1 quantum for certain scales with application varying multiplication factors. which inter alia means
    different formulae adopted for computation of pension as a whole. Thus, the need for parity in the principle of calculation of pension even within the homogenous class of pre-2006 pensioners who form part of single homogenous group that includes post-2006 pensioners also.

    "when body of persons formed a homogenous class for the purpose of availment of certain benefits, they cannot be subjected to sub-classification"

    Whereas, all the remaining scales of pre-2006 have since been subjected sub-classification as far as Minimum Revised Pension is concerned.

    Any remedial solution shall, therefore, remove the said sub-classification in toto, irrespective of the scales from which the pensioner had retired prior to 1.1.2006, particularly in order to avoid any similar sub-classification in future revisions of pension also.
    Pay Scales Min pay
    4CPC Min pay
    5CPC Min pay
    6CPC Multi-
    plication
    factor Multi-
    plication
    factor
    (A) (B) (C) (D) C/B D/C
    S1 750 2550 6050 3.4 2.3
    2 775 2610 6260 3.4 2.3
    3 800 2650 6580 3.3 2.4
    4 825 2750 7330 3.3 2.6
    5 950 3050 7780 3.2 2.5
    6 975 3200 8060 3.3 2.5
    7 1200 4000 9840 3.3 2.4
    8 1350 4500 11170 3.3 2.4
    9 1400 5000 13500 3.5 2.7
    S10 1640 5500 14430 3.9 2.6
    11 2000 6500 16290 3.2 3.1
    12 2000 6500 16290 3.2 2.5
    13 2375 7450 18460 3.1 2.4
    14 2500 7500 18750 3.0 2.5
    15 2200 8000 20280 3.6 2.5
    16 2630 9000 22140 3.4 2.4
    17 2630 9000 22140 3.4 2.4
    18 3150 10325 25810 3.2 2.4
    19 3000 10000 25200 3.3 2.5
    20 3200 10650 26410 3.3 2.4
    21 3700 12000 29920 3.2 2.4
    22 3950 12750 31320 3.2 2.4
    S23 3700 12000 29920 3.2 2.4
    24 4100 14300 46100 3.4 3.2
    25 4800 15100 48390 3.1 3.2
    26 5100 16400 48590 3.2 2.9
    27 5100 16400 48590 3.2 2.9
    28 4500 14300 47400 3.1 3.3
    29 5900 18400 54700 3.1 2.9
    S30 7300 22400 67000 3 2.9

    Note: The bottom stage of pre-revised scales from S-24 and above, have undergone Revision by involving a Multiplication factor of about 3 as stated above, while the remaining scales are left with a MF of about 2.4.

    Whereas, the gap was not so wide in 5th CPC as compared to 4th CPC among the respective multiplication factor of all the 30 scales where a uniform multiplication factor of about 3 as whole has been Involved.

    Thus in comparison with 5th CPC revision pattern which introduced the Principle of Modified Parity for revision of pension, the relief for pre-2006 pensioners w.e.f. 1.1.2006 could be application of uniform manner and methodology in deriving modified parity based Minimum Revised Pension in respect of all scale retirees, viz. MF of 3 over FIFTY PERCENT OF bottom stage of pre-revised scale from which the pensioner had retired (5th CPC), particularly for pre-2006 pensioners Such a uniformity only could be real MODIFIED PARITY BASED MINIMUM REVISED PENSION IRRESPECTIVE OF PRE-REVISED SCALE FROM WHICH THE PENSIONER HAD RETIRED.
    There could be no bar to take suitable decisions independent of Pay Commission Recommendation by the Policy makers.

  18. #118
    Senior Member Gopal Krishan is on a distinguished road
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    Reference post No. 116. Could some one elaborate on "A copy of this order be placed in OA-789/2013 and OA-4130/2013 also" appearing in the ordr of CAT?
    Gopal Krishan

  19. #119
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gopal Krishan View Post
    Reference post No. 116. Could some one elaborate on "A copy of this order be placed in OA-789/2013 and OA-4130/2013 also" appearing in the ordr of CAT?
    Gopal Krishan
    As the issue involved in three OAs O.A./971/2012, O.A/4130/2013 and OA/789/2013 are same and the Judgment being common one for all the three OAs, a copy of the Order has been directed to be placed in rest of the two cases, viz. OA 789 and OA 4130.

  20. #120
    Member subba Rao R S is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Pensioners of S-21 V CPC scales,

    With the judgment of CAT on PB 4 to JAG regular against our appeal to reduce the gap of pay of JAG regular and JAG NFSG, it looks to me to close this thread with the feeling that JAG regulars have been demoralized thereby reducing their output efficiency in Government particularly in research and Development organizations like DRDO(where officers of Armed forces and civilians work together), Dept of Space and Dept of Atomic energy.

    Let us hope 7th CPC will do their best to reduce the pay gap and implementation group will accepts the same for boosting the demoralized.

    Thanks for all the contributors to this thread and advisers like Shri V Natarajan and shri S S Ramachandran former secy Gen of AICCPA and of course to Admin gconnect for this platform

    Subba Rao R S .

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