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Thread: Stepping up of Pay

  1. #1
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Default Stepping up of Pay

    There are three categories of officials affected by the upgradation of the pre-revised scale of 6500 to 7450, in the cadre of Stenographers.

    First, PAs (pre-revised 5500) who were promoted before 1.1.2006.
    Second, Stenographers (pre-revised 4000) who were granted ACP to the scale of PA (pre-revised 5500) before 1.1.2006.
    Third, Stenographers (pre-revised 4000) who were granted ACP to the scale of PA (5500/6500) during the period 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008.

    The Department of Expenditure and the Department of Economic Affairs have fixed the pay of Steno Gr. D (pre-revised 4000-6000) who have been granted ACP between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008, at Rs. 13,860 + GP 4600 based on the fitment table of 7450-11500.

    Thus the third and lowest category of officials indicated above have got the benefit of fixation using the 7450 fitment table.

    This gives rise to a peculiar situation in a cadre. The first and second categories who were drawing more pay and were in a higher scale than the third category as on 1.1.2006, are now drawing less pay. Can the pay of the first two categories viz. PAs promoted before 1.1.2006 and Stenos granted ACP before 1.1.2006 be stepped up w.r.t. their juniors, and if so under what rule.

    Under Note 10 below Rule 7 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008, stepping up is possible only in cases of 'promotion'. Further, posts are required to be 'identical'. Thus DOPT has issued orders vide OM dated 22/12/2010 (http://persmin.gov.in/WriteReadData/CS/Steppingup.pdf) giving the benefit of stepping up of pay to senior Assistants/PAs who were promoted before 1.1.2006 w.r.t. to their junior Assistants/PAs who were promoted during 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008 and who got the benefit of fixation of pay at 13,860.

    Note 7 below Rule 7 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008, also provides for the benefit of stepping up of pay. This provides for stepping up of pay in cases where a senior govt. servant draws more pay (pre-revised) before 1.1.2006 than a junior in the "same cadre". There is no condition w.r.t. mode of appointment and the post held by the senior and junior. Can the first two categories claim for stepping up of pay based on this provision, since all the three categories belong to the same "cadre" and were drawing more pay than the third category before 1.1.2006????

    This problem is also equally faced by the Assistants/UDCs promoted/granted ACP before 1.1.2006.

    I request all members of GConnect to give in their valuable suggestions, comments and views on the subject.

    In case any orders have been issued in any Ministry/Department giving the benefit of stepping up of pay to the first two categories vis-a-vis the third category, the same may kindly be mailed to me at victor_alb@hotmail.com)

    Victor
    Last edited by Victor; 17-01-2011 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default Promotee vs ACP holders

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Department of Expenditure and the Department of Economic Affairs have fixed the pay of Steno Gr. D (pre-revised 4000-6000) who have been granted ACP between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008, at Rs. 13,860 + GP 4600 based on the fitment table of 7450-11500.

    Thus the third and lowest category of officials indicated above have got the benefit of fixation using the 7450 fitment table.

    This gives rise to a peculiar situation in a cadre. The first and second categories who were drawing more pay and were in a higher scale than the third category as on 1.1.2006, are now drawing less pay. Can the pay of the first two categories viz. PAs promoted before 1.1.2006 and Stenos granted ACP before 1.1.2006 be stepped up w.r.t. their juniors, and if so under what rule.

    Victor
    Dear Sir,

    I have a doubt with regard to `Gr.D Steno who were in 4000-6000 and given ACP during 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008'. While their GP as on 1.1.2006 will be Rs.2400, whether it is possible to grant Rs.4600 straightaway by skipping the GP of Rs.4200 (which is common to 5500 as well as 6500).

    However, the major problem lies in `what is the minimum of the pay in the pay band' A person promoted to the grade 5500 prior to 1.1.2006 will get atleast bottom of the scale as his promoted pay, even if he is drawing less than that.

    Whereas, a person promoted to the grade 5500 after 1.1.2006 will get only one increment equivalent to 3% of his revised pay for addition to pay in the pay band. Even if such a pay in the pay band is less than 5500 x 1.86 = 12300, the pay is not stepped upto such a minimum pay in the pay band corresponding to bottom of the pre-revised scale. Same is the case of a person promoted to the grade 6500/7450 after 1.1.2006.

    Whereas from your post, it is learnt that The Department of Expenditure and the Department of Economic Affairs have fixed the pay of Steno Gr. D (pre-revised 4000-6000) who have been granted ACP between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008, at Rs. 13,860 + GP 4600 based on the fitment table of 7450-11500. That means, minimum pay in the pay band has been ensured for such cases only. So, definitely, the stepping up to the minimum pay in the pay band corresponding to bottom of the pre-revised scale has to be done wherever
    the pay in the pay band happens to be less than such minimum. Such stepping up on par with the quoted type of cases(ACP), may have to be attended on case to case basis. Because, it may not be common factor in almost all the departments.

    The issue has more scope for variety of views and the pensioners too got affected mainly because of the manner in which the terminology `minimum pay in the pay band' is being utilisied towards reducing impact on minimum revised pension, which you may already be aware.

    It is also quite surprising that initial pay in the pay band for Direct Recruits to the grade carrying GP of Rs.4600 and Rs.4800 are Rs.12540 and Rs.13350 while in many other cases carrying rest of the GPs, the same are more than minimum of the pay in the pay band (as applicable to corresponding bottom of the pre-revised scale). Ultimately, all category of employees, ie. pre-2006 promotees, post-2006 ACP holders, Direct recruits will be having same duties and responsibilities, in which case, there cannot be different minimum pay in the pay band irrespective of pre-revised scale.

    Latest post in Anomalies thread by Shri Suresanp is reproduced below for information:

    "There are Commercial/Traffic Apprentices selected between 01.01.2006 - 31.08.2008 under departmental quota (LDCE) and direct quota (RRB) for the grade of 5500-9000. The departmental candidates belongs to 3050, 3200, 4000-6000 and 5000-8000 grades.They after 2 year long intensive training and being found suitable after a series of examinations in different phases are put to utter confusion due to this merger of grades. At PGT and SA divisions of Southern Railway, such employees are placed below erstwhile 5000-8000 where as in other divisions are waiting for clarification from the board. A selection grade should not have merged with its lower grade ! The matter has been represented to Shri Raghavaiahji GS/NFIR by Mangalore Branch of SRES (Southern Railway Employees Sangh)suresan.cherupuzha@gmail.com"

    Will continue further...
    Last edited by sundarar; 17-01-2011 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Thanks for your comments.

    During the period 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008 the old ACP Scheme of 1999 will be applicable. Hence, the Steno Gr. D in the Grade Pay of 2400 will be eligible to the Grade Pay of a PA viz. 4600 on grant of ACP. After 1.9.2008 the Steno Gr. D will be eligible to GP 2800 under the MACP Scheme.

    As regards, the 'minimum of the pay in the pay band' I feel this can only be resolved by fixing a minimum pay in the pay band in the case of promotion similar to what is admissible for Direct Recruits.

    Victor

  4. #4
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Thanks for your comments.

    During the period 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008 the old ACP Scheme of 1999 will be applicable. Hence, the Steno Gr. D in the Grade Pay of 2400 will be eligible to the Grade Pay of a PA viz. 4600 on grant of ACP. After 1.9.2008 the Steno Gr. D will be eligible to GP 2800 under the MACP Scheme.

    As regards, the 'minimum of the pay in the pay band' I feel this can only be resolved by fixing a minimum pay in the pay band in the case of promotion similar to what is admissible for Direct Recruits.

    Victor
    I understand now that the pre-revised scale of Gr.D Steno was 4000-6000 and that of PA 5500-9000. Even if ACP was applicable till 1.9.2008, the financial upgradation
    can provide only a GP of Rs.4200 although the pay in the pay band being drawn on the date of ACP in the revised structure gets enhanced by adding 3% of revised pay as ACP benefit. On the contrary, if GP of Rs.4600 given, according to me it is incorrect, particularly since the next higher grade of Gr.D happens to be 5500-9000. Apart from this,
    in case a person already drawing pay in the pay band based on his higher pay in the pre-revised scale earned till 1.1.2006 and such a pay in the pay band happens to be higher than the pay in the pay band of one who promoted prior to 1.1.2006, then the possibilities of stepping up may be less.

    Further, if for the purpose of ACP the fitment table can be used for fixing the initial/minimum pay in the pay band, it could very well be used for post-2006 promotees, direct recruits, pensioners, etc. and there may not be any need to fix a minimum pay, as the same is very much available. Ultimately, a minimum pay or a minimum pay in the pay band is nothing but revised pay of bottom of the corresponding pre-revised scale. So far, in respect of pensioners, it is said that fitment tables are meant for only to revise pre-revised pay as on 1.1.2006 or from the date when revised structure is opted. For promotees also, it is said that once pay in the pay band is determined, subsequent promotional benefits etc. will be as per CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 only..

    In case the details of the DOE & DOEA Order fixing pay in the pay band as per fitment table with GP of Rs.4600 can be provided, it will be very helpful to similarly situated personnel in other departments. However, I will attempt to get access to the Order dated 22.12.2010.

    Incidentally, the mode of appointment and the post held are immaterial for stepping up according to Note 7 under Rule 7. Pay drawn in the lower grade only is assuming significance. Hence, first two categories referred to by you, are definitely
    eligible for stepping up of pay subject to the conditions prescribed for the same.

    Sundarar

  5. #5
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks for your comments/views.

    The Grade Pay of Assistants/PAs in CSS is Rs. 4600. Hence, Stenos on promotion/ACP are eligible for GP 4600.

    The link to Order dated 22.12.2010 is given in my post at #1.

    The fixation orders of DOE and DEA are available with me. In case you need it, please indicate your email ID.

    Regards.

    Victor

  6. #6
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks for your kind information. I could get both the orders, viz. dated 22.12.2010 and the latest one dated 7.1.2011. In some departments, although GP of Rs.4600 was granted,
    the pay in the pay band has not been stepped upto the stage corresponding to lowest stage of the pre-revised scale 7450-11500. In some other departments, the higher scale to 6500-10500 is 7500-12000. This is the first time, we come across that an initial pay in the pay band/minimum pay in the pay band as applicable to lowest stage of upgraded scale is granted alongwith GP of Rs.4600. The information may be very useful to concerned. It is also noted that minimum pay in the pay band corresponding to lowest stage of the pre-revised scale has been explicitly prescribed by delinking the minimum of the pay band 9300 which is corresponding pay in the pay band to lowest stage of pre-revised scale 5000-8000. This information will also be useful to pre-2006 pensioners, in whose case, it was all along maintained that minimum of pay band and minimum of the pay in the pay band were one and same so far, till AFT Judgements had emphasised more on the definition part.

    Thanks once again.
    Regards.

    Sundarar.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks once again.

    Can you please provide a link to the Order dated 7.1.2011 mentioned in your post.

    Victor

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    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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  9. #9
    Junior Member rameshwarsingh is on a distinguished road
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    In case of upgraded/merged to higher posts there is nothing wrong to fix pay based on fitment table of upgraded posts as 6cpc recommended to pre-revised scales only. Only obstacle is Alok Saxena's clarficatory OM dated 13-10-2008. However, DOPT OM 22-12-2010 removed this obstacle partly in case of CSS Assistants and PAs. Rule 7 Note 7 is applicable in case of pay fixation cases of as on 1.1.2006 only. GM Kabui's case will be applicable under Rule 11 as his pay fixed after 1.1.2006. MOF stepped up Order dated 7-1-2011 is purely under Rule 7 Note 10 which is objectionable by audit as GM Kabui draw more pay by virtue of his option. Under FR22 no stepped up can be done by seniors if his junior draws more pay by virtue of option. How to tackle Assistants promoted as SO in 2004,2005 but still draws less pay than GM Kabui & Co.?

  10. #10
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default Notes 7, 10 and 11 under Rule 7 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by rameshwarsingh View Post
    In case of upgraded/merged to higher posts there is nothing wrong to fix pay based on fitment table of upgraded posts as 6cpc recommended to pre-revised scales only. Only obstacle is Alok Saxena's clarficatory OM dated 13-10-2008. However, DOPT OM 22-12-2010 removed this obstacle partly in case of CSS Assistants and PAs. Rule 7 Note 7 is applicable in case of pay fixation cases of as on 1.1.2006 only. GM Kabui's case will be applicable under Rule 11 as his pay fixed after 1.1.2006. MOF stepped up Order dated 7-1-2011 is purely under Rule 7 Note 10 which is objectionable by audit as GM Kabui draw more pay by virtue of his option. Under FR22 no stepped up can be done by seniors if his junior draws more pay by virtue of option. How to tackle Assistants promoted as SO in 2004,2005 but still draws less pay than GM Kabui & Co.?
    Dear Shri RSji. Many thanks for valuable input.
    I reproduce below the recent posts in `Pay band and Pay in the Pay band' thread under
    Anomalies topic of the Discussion Forum, for information.

    • Originally Posted by tvenkatam
    Dear Sir,

    As you had emphasized in your post above, the minimum of the pay band and the minimum of the pay in the pay band can never be one and same except the 4 scales namely S-4, S-9, Gr.A Entry and S-24. For instance in the case of PB-2 (9300-34800) the pre-revised pay scale of S-9 with the grade pay of 4200 has the pay in the pay band of 9300 at par with the minimum of the pay band PB-2. The other pre-revised scales subsumed in the running pay band of PB-2 with the grade pay of 4600 and 4800 also seemingly assigned the same minimum of the pay band i.e 9300 but has different ‘entry level pay in the pay band’ (12540 for GP 4600 and 13350 for GP 4800) in terms of Rule 8 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008. The entry level pay in the pay band of a post corresponds to the grade pay attached to that post. An employee, whether new entrant or promotee, should draw a pay not less than the entry level pay in the pay band to avoid any anomaly.

    In the present dispensation, a new entrant is entitled to ‘the entry level pay in the pay band’ of the post while a promotee to the same post is not entitled to the minimum pay assigned to the post or ‘the entry level pay in the pay band’ of the post. Doesn’t this read ridiculous?
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Shri TVji,

    Please see the posts under thread `Stepping up of Pay' started by Shri Victorji under Pay Fixation topic.

    The latest Orders dated 22.12.2010 and 7.1.11 issued by the DOE may also please be seen.

    I have a doubt with regard to Note 7 and Note 10 under CCS (RP) Rules, 2008 on stepping up of pay. While Note 10 says stepping up is possible only in case the senior is drawing more pay than the junior in the lower grade, the Note 7 under same Rule 7 also provides for stepping up of pay of senior. Whether for Note 7 the condition that senior should have drawn more pay than the junior is not applicable? That means, if a senior in a particular grade draws more pay prior to 1.1.2006 and after revision of pay if his pay happens to be less than his junior under any circumstances, whether stepping up is permissible? How a junior's pay other than promotion can be more than a senior after 1.1.2006. Under Rule 7 whether only seniority matters and pay does not matter?.

    Please share your views in this regard.
    Sundarar
    Sir,
    Note 7 of rule 7 of Railway Service rule(RP) 2008 is given below.
    "Where in the fixation of pay under sub-rule(1),the pay of a Railway servant,who,in the existing scale was draing immediately before the 1st day of January,2006 more pay than another Railway ervant junior to him in the same cadre,gets fixed in the revised pay band at a stage lower than that of such junior,his pay shall be stepped up to the same stage in the revised pay band as that of the junior".
    But as per my knowledge no chance of such situation.We can see so many cases as mentioned in note 10.
    Jaleelethiyil
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    As pointed out by Shri Victorji in the thread indicated in my previous post, DOPT has issued orders vide OM dated 22/12/2010 (http://persmin.gov.in/WriteReadData/CS/Steppingup.pdf) giving the benefit of stepping up of pay to senior Assistants/PAs who were promoted before 1.1.2006 w.r.t. to their junior Assistants/PAs who were promoted during 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008 and who got the benefit of fixation of pay at 13,860.

    Subsequently, another order dated 7.1.2011 has followed on the stepping up of pay wherein the stepping up of pay was carried out in accordance with both Note 7 and Note 10 under Rule 7 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008.

    My query is what is the difference between Note 7 and Note 10 and whether conditions
    prescribed under Note 10 are equally applicable to stepping up under Note 7 too.
    Sundarar
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thus, just because a GS draws more pay prior to 1.1.2006, whether his revised pay ought to be stepped up on par with his junior irrespective of the fact that such a junior had been drawing more pay in the lower grade. This is one query.

    In case, there does not exist any lower grade, on the basis of seniority alone, whether pay can be stepped up? As you had pointed out that Shri GM Kabui drew more pay by virtue of his option, in which case such a pay is purely personal to him. In which case, both Note 7 and Note 10 cannot get satisfied. In the instant case, it appears on the basis of ACP (which is more or less equivalent to promotion) Shri GM Kabui happened to get more pay. In such a case, it is not sufficient to apply only Note 7 but Note 10 too very much valid to get satisfied with its conditions for stepping up of seniors.

    With regard to SOs, this issue needs to be addressed suitably.

    So far, it was maintained that fitment table is meant for pay fixation as on 1.1.2006. But, such a fitment table do contain a minimum pay in the pay band which is equally valid after 1.1.2006 too for fixation of pay in the case of promotees after 2006. But, it is being maintained that by doing so, the purpose of introduction of pay band concept could not be achieved. We don't know the said purpose.

    (Same is the case of pensioners, where minimum of the pay in the pay band alias minimum of the pay band has been prescribed irrespective of pre-revised scale from which the pensioner had retired, together with GP as applicable to pre-revised scale from which the pensioner had retired have been prescribed as minimum assured/guaranteed revised pension).

    Incidentally, I too agree with your goodself that in case of upgraded/merged to higher posts there is nothing wrong to fix pay based on fitment table of upgraded posts as 6cpc recommended to pre-revised scales only. Only wish is that in case of persons promoted after 1.1.2006 to such a higher post too, the pay fixation based on fitment table of promoted post shall take place mainly to protect minimum promoted pay, as in many cases, the promotees were drawing less than minimum of the pay inthe pay band corresponding to bottom of the promoted post's pre-revised scale on the date of promotion, as their pay is fixed under Rule 13..

    As your goodself have pointed out that `Only obstacle is Shri Alok Saxena's clarficatory OM dated 13-10-2008. However, DOPT OM 22-12-2010 removed this obstacle partly in case of CSS Assistants and PAs', this obstacle shall get completely removed by issue of suitable corrigendum to OM dated 13.10.2008 so that uniformity can be maintained in all departments for the posts concerned. As far I know, the minimum pay in the pay band as applicable to upgraded/merged higher post is not ensured as on 1.1.2006 except for the instant case.
    Last edited by sundarar; 19-01-2011 at 07:07 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    I request all members of GConnect to give in their valuable suggestions, comments and views on Post #1 given below.

    Victor

  12. #12
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default Significance of minimum pay in the pay band

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I request all members of GConnect to give in their valuable suggestions, comments and views on Post #1 given below.

    Victor
    Shri K.Ramalingam of Central Excise, Tiruchirapalli had posted an Article on ACP in Gconnect.in which may also please be seen.

    Some more views on the issue posted in other threads, is reproduced below for information.

    Kindly refer to OM dated 13.10.2008 available at (http://finmin.nic.in/6cpc/fno112008dt131008.pdf) clarifying the methodology to be used in all cases where posts have been upgraded as a result of the recommendations of the 6CPC. Para 3 of the OM clearly indicates that "pay in the pay band will be fixed in accordance with the fitment table of the pre-revised scale... To this the Grade Pay... corresponding to the upgraded pay scale ... will be added". An illustration has also been given which makes the case crystal clear.

    However, subsequently DOPT has issued orders vide OM dated 22/12/2010 (http://persmin.gov.in/WriteReadData/CS/Steppingup.pdf) giving the benefit of stepping up of pay to senior Assistants/PAs who were promoted before 1.1.2006 w.r.t. to their junior Assistants/PAs who were promoted during 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008 and who got the benefit of fixation of pay at 13,860.

    In partial modification of the above Order, another Order is issued for stepping up of pay on par with junior who got ACP benefits w.e.f. 2.1.2006 in the upgraded scale of 7450-11500. Coincidentally, such a junior's pre-revised pay happened to be Rs.7450 and thereby he got pay fixed as per fitment table as on 2.1.2006 at 13860 with GP Rs.4600.
    The seniors who were drawing less than the junior as on 1.1.2006 in the pre-upgraded scale 5500-9000 have been granted stepping up in accordance with the provisions of Note 10 under Rule 7 of CCS (RP), 2008.

    Once we relate to Note 10, the junior should not have been drawing more pay in the lower grade from time to time than the senior.

    Whereas, in the instant case, as against the clarifications provided by DOE OM dated 13.10.2008 and subsequent internal U.O. dated 14/12/2009 attached with DOPT OM dated 22.12.2010, the DOPT has issued separate order dated 7.1.2011 in the name of stepping up of pay, as the internal U.O. suggested that in cases where a senior Govt. servant is drawing lesser pay than his directly recruited junior borne on the same gradation list.

    We come across various types of scales, viz. Upgraded scales, Merged scales, Replacement Scales, etc.

    As far as ACP is concerned, the individual who served about 12 years or more and earned higher pay in the present grade - here it is 5500-9000 - get financial upgradation which happened to be the lowest stage of the upgraded scale of 5500-9000. Whereas, in the case of `seniors' in the same grade, the case is not so. They never earned higher pay than the aforesaid individual even on 2.1.2006 but by virtue of upgradation of the scale 5500-9000 to 7450-11500 their pre-revised pay got elevated to the lowest stage of the upgraded higher scale as on 1.1.2006.

    As per DOE clarification dated 13.10.2008, their minimum of the pay in the pay band got fixed at the pay in the pay band in accordance with the fitment table of the pre-revised scale...To this the Grade Pay...Rs.4600 corresponding to the upgraded pay scale has also been added.

    In the Order dated 7.1.2011, (The link for Order dated 7.1.2011 is
    http://www.cssofficers.in/drstepup.pdf) the pre-revised/pre-ACP pay of junior Shri G.M. Kabui, Assistant working in the cadre of Ministry of Urban Development must also have been fixed as per the above procedure.
    Or he would have retained the pre-revised scale till 2.1.2006 for the purpose of availing ACP benefits, which may not be required as by virtue of ACP, his pre-revised pay will get elevated to 7450 after adding an increment in the old structure. As on 1.1.2006 itself he must have acquired the upgraded scale. The financial increment equivalent to one increment must have got added on 2.1.2006.

    Now, the question is whether the stepping up issued on 7.1.2011 on par with the aforesaid junior Shri G.M. Kabui, satisfies the provisions of Note 7 and Note 10 under Rule 7 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008.

    While many illustrations are possible in the case of Note 10, we could not come across any specific illustration w.r.t. Note 7. To that extent, the note itself is silent as to whether it is applicable for only on 1.1.2006 or all along. By taking reference to only Note 7, stepping up of all seniors even if they draw lesser pay in the lower grade could be possible. Then, what is the purpose of Note 10? Whether both can travel together?

    In spite of the views above, I am of the firm belief, that when a scale gets merged, upgraded, replaced, the lowest stage of the pre-revised scale shall be revised according to the fitment table meant for the merged higher scale, upgraded higher scale, replaced higher scale and not according to the pre-merged pre-revised scale, pre-upgraded pre-revised scale, pre-replaced pre-revised scale.

    Same applies to the promoted scale too. On promotion after 1.1.2006, if the pay in the pay band happens to be lesser than that of corresponding lowest stage of the promoted scale, the same ought to be stepped up to the pay in the pay band applicable to the promoted scale bottom - Here is where, the terminology `Minimum Pay in the Pay Band' acquires significance.

    Same shall apply to direct recruits after 1.1.2006. Wherever, the pay in the pay band being a fixed element, happened to be lesser than the aforesaid Minimum Pay in the Pay band, the stepping up is all the more necessary. Actually, the concept of fixed element for direct recruits does not serve any purpose, except grant of higher fixed element to particular GPs, while the duties and responsibilities are one and same of a particular post, though the scale of which may be upgraded/merged/replaced/promoted/induction level, etc. If we believe
    Equal Pay for Equal work, the Minimum Pay in the Pay Band needs to be ensured wherever the pay in the running pay band happens to be less than that.

    A detailed clarificatory OM is all the more necessary, for removing all disparities among the 34 pre-revised scales when the same undergoes revision on 1.1.2006 and afterwards too. The tenure of the National Anomaly Committee may expire by March 2011 unless it is further extended. Whether suitable remedy to all the problems being encountered owing to pay band concepts, can be expected?

  13. #13
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default ACP/MACP is Personal to the incumbent

    Quote Originally Posted by rameshwarsingh View Post
    GM Kabui's case will be applicable under Rule 11 as his pay fixed after 1.1.2006. MOF stepped up Order dated 7-1-2011 is purely under Rule 7 Note 10 which is objectionable by audit as GM Kabui draw more pay by virtue of his option. Under FR22 no stepped up can be done by seniors if his junior draws more pay by virtue of option. How to tackle Assistants promoted as SO in 2004,2005 but still draws less pay than GM Kabui & Co.?
    MACP granted to Shri GM Kabui must be personal to him. Please see below the Railway Board Circular. If financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme is personal to the incumbent and entitles the employee to certain benefits which are linked to the pay drawn by the employee, how then the stepping up of pay granted to seniors vide DOPT OM dated 7.1.2011 could be in order?.

    GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
    MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS
    (RAILWAY BOARD)

    S.No.PC-VI/245 No.PC-V/2009/ACP/2 RBE No.5/2011 New Delhi, dated 12-01-2011
    The General Managers
    All Zonal Rai1ways & PUs
    (As per mailing list)

    Sub:- Entitlement of Pass facilites under MACPS -Clarification reg.

    Ref:- Board’s letter of even number dated 10-06-2009

    The issue regarding the entitlement of privilege and other passes in case of employees who have been granted financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme has been under consideration.

    In terms of Para 16 of Annexure of Board's letter referred to above, financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme is personal to the incumbent and entitles the employee to certain benefits which are linked to the pay drawn by the employee. Hence, the benefit of Passes/PTOs Corresponding to the next higher Grade Pay granted under the MACP Scheme will be available to the employee. It is also reiterated that the grant of financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme does not entail any change in the designation, classification and status of an employee. Accordingly, the benefits related to higher status inherent in the higher Pay Band and / or Grade Pay is not avaialble to such an employee who has been granted higher Grade Pay under the MACP Scheme.

    3. This issue with the concurrence of the Finance Directorate of the Ministry of Rai1ways.

    4. Hindi version is enclosed.
    N.P.Singh Dy. Director, Pay Commission - V Railway Board

  14. #14
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default If a MPPB exists, then for how long/short?

    Quote Originally Posted by sundarar View Post
    MACP granted to Shri GM Kabui must be personal to him. Please see below the Railway Board Circular. If financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme is personal to the incumbent and entitles the employee to certain benefits which are linked to the pay drawn by the employee, how then the stepping up of pay granted to seniors vide DOPT OM dated 7.1.2011 could be in order?.

    GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
    MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS
    (RAILWAY BOARD)

    S.No.PC-VI/245 No.PC-V/2009/ACP/2 RBE No.5/2011 New Delhi, dated 12-01-2011
    The General Managers
    All Zonal Rai1ways & PUs
    (As per mailing list)

    Sub:- Entitlement of Pass facilites under MACPS -Clarification reg.

    Ref:- Board’s letter of even number dated 10-06-2009

    The issue regarding the entitlement of privilege and other passes in case of employees who have been granted financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme has been under consideration.

    In terms of Para 16 of Annexure of Board's letter referred to above, financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme is personal to the incumbent and entitles the employee to certain benefits which are linked to the pay drawn by the employee. Hence, the benefit of Passes/PTOs Corresponding to the next higher Grade Pay granted under the MACP Scheme will be available to the employee. It is also reiterated that the grant of financial upgradation under the MACP Scheme does not entail any change in the designation, classification and status of an employee. Accordingly, the benefits related to higher status inherent in the higher Pay Band and / or Grade Pay is not avaialble to such an employee who has been granted higher Grade Pay under the MACP Scheme.

    3. This issue with the concurrence of the Finance Directorate of the Ministry of Rai1ways.

    4. Hindi version is enclosed.
    N.P.Singh Dy. Director, Pay Commission - V Railway Board
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    On the contrary, there may not be any need for DOPT OM dated 7.1.2011, as without that also, the said seniors indicated therein, by virtue of the upgradation of their pre-revised scale to 7450-11500 as on 1.1.2006 and the revised pay structure provide them a GP of Rs.4600 as applicable to the said upgraded pre-revised scale,
    are entitled to minimum pay in the pay band as per the fitment table (as on 1.1.2006 itself) corresponding to lowest/bottom stage of the upgraded pre-revised scale in question. There is no need to involve stepping up of pay on par with junior under Rule 7 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008.

    Neither pre-revised scales nor the corresponding minimum pay in the pay band applicable to lowest stage of the scale can vanish at any point of time from 1.1.2006 and the same also cannot be said to be having validity only on 1.1.2006.

    In spite, the debate continues with regard to the terminology -
    MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND - eversince the 6th CPC recommendations were implemented. The following post of mine in the `Pay band and Pay in the Pay band' will give further inputs in this regard.

    "In one of the Circular issued by RB, it is indicated that `Sixth CPC has not prescribed minimum pay in the pay band for the purpose of fixation of pay on promotion in the case of any grade and, fixing of minimum pay in the pay band in the case of each grade pay for departmental promotees would defeat the very purpose of introduction of running pay band'.

    Whereas, without correlating with the lowest stage of the pre-revised scale, a corresponding running pay band cannot start its journey. On promotion to a higher grade, pay would have been fixed at the lowest stage of pre-revised scale of the said higher grade till 31.12.2005 and even till implementation of 6th CPC recommendation. On implementation, the promotional fitment benefit got reduced to that of financial upgradation under ACP, according to me. In both the cases, while GP applicable to the higher grade is granted - the running pay in the pay band after adding the benefit of 3% of revised pay with it, if happens to be lesser than a running pay in the pay band applicable to lowest stage of the pre-revised scale of the promoted grade, it can be stepped upto minimum of the pay band, only in the case of promotion. As we had seen so far, a minimum of the pay band can also plays the role of minimum of the running pay in the pay band only in respect of 4 pre-revised scales corresponding to minimum of PB1, 2, 3, and 4. There are many intermittent pre-revised scales within a particular pay band and when promotional benefits are granted, the same are more or less similar to that of ACP benefits, according to me. Our forum members may please clarify this aspect with their valuable inputs.

    For want of minimum pay in the pay band just because the same is not specifically prescribed by the 6th CPC owing to the fact that it is nothing but corresponding to lowest stage of the pre-revised scale that is very much derivable, the due promotional benefits can not be fixed at a stage lower than the minimum of the pay in the pay band, ie. below the lowest stage of the pre-revised scale of the higher post in the revised structure.

    The question is, whether a minimum pay in the pay band is required to be prescribed specifically by a Pay Commission under the given situation. The manner and methodology of interpretation during implementation, led to several reducing impacts in respect of promotees to higher grades, higher scale holders owing to merger as well as upgradation, pensioners for the purpose of deriving minimum revised pension, etc.

    It is quite significant to note that the Dept. of Expenditure, vide their U.O. dated 14.12.2009 to DOPT while clarifying, have gone on record that `since the minimum pay in the pay band in the revised structure corresponding to the stage of Rs.5500 (pre-revised scale of Rs.5500-9000), is more than the minimum of the pay band PB-2(ie.) Rs.9300/- no benefit of bunching is admissible in this case'.

    It is also said in the same U.O. Note that `6th CPC has not prescribed a minimum pay in the running pay band w.r.t. minimum entry level pay prescribed for direct recruits appointed on or after 1.1.2006'.

    Thus, it is quite surprising to note that except for the induction level direct recruits of post-2006, in all other cases including pre-2006 pensioners, a clear cut MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND CORRESPONDING TO LOWEST STAGE OF THE PRE-REVISED SCALE IS VERY MUCH AVAILABLE W.E.F. 1.1.2006 ONWARDS, and for establishing this available fact, the pensioner community of pre-2006 is driven towards seeking intervention of the Judiciary because all communications to them maintain that a pay band minimum and a minimum of the pay in the pay band are one and same.

    The RB Circular indicated above says minimum pay in the pay band is not prescribed for promotees of post-2006 while the DOE U.O. Note denies bunching of benefits by citing the very minimum pay in the pay band which is corresponding to lowest stage of the pre-revised scale, but lesser than the minimum of the PAY BAND.

    The serving employees who got promoted after 1.1.2006 can very well share their views in this aspect for better understanding".


    Last edited by sundarar; 26-01-2011 at 04:47 PM.

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    I am is also have the same gevance in Rly the post of SE 6500-10500 has been upgraded to 7450-11500 but the fiaxtion has not been done as per upgraded scale i.e 7450 X 1.86 but they only given fixation as per existing basic i.e 6500 why there is difference in fixation of GM Kabui as he was in basic 5500 but he given fixation of 7450. If you have the fixation authentic document related to upgraded scale fixation then give me the document to mail susant27071974@gmail.com

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    As GM Kabui has been fixed at basic 18460 as his scale is upgraded to7450 from 55000 on dt.2.1.2006 as per MOF & DOPT as < Kindly give me further deatls of the person GM kabui whose basic fixed at that way has never done in any central govt organization. So If MOF & DOPT is doing this that will be applicable all other person in other department So senior member kindly give or provide the order obn which it has been fixed.

  17. #17
    Senior Member sundarar is on a distinguished road
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    Default Existence of Minimum Pay in the Pay band for corresponding Pre-revised scale

    Quote Originally Posted by rameshwarsingh View Post
    In case of upgraded/merged to higher posts there is nothing wrong to fix pay based on fitment table of upgraded posts as 6cpc recommended to pre-revised scales only. Only obstacle is Alok Saxena's clarficatory OM dated 13-10-2008. However, DOPT OM 22-12-2010 removed this obstacle partly in case of CSS Assistants and PAs. Rule 7 Note 7 is applicable in case of pay fixation cases of as on 1.1.2006 only. GM Kabui's case will be applicable under Rule 11 as his pay fixed after 1.1.2006. MOF stepped up Order dated 7-1-2011 is purely under Rule 7 Note 10 which is objectionable by audit as GM Kabui draw more pay by virtue of his option. Under FR22 no stepped up can be done by seniors if his junior draws more pay by virtue of option. How to tackle Assistants promoted as SO in 2004,2005 but still draws less pay than GM Kabui & Co.?
    Dear Shri Susantji,

    Shri Rameshwarsinghji's post above may please be seen. I could only guess that Shri GM Kabui by virtue of ACP, would have got Rs.7450
    normally on 2.1.2006. We don't know the pay details of neither Shri GM Kabui nor the seniors of him, in the lower grade from time to time till the promotion of seniors to the grade carrying scale of Rs.5500-9000 so as to attract the provisions of Note 10 under Rule 7 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008.

    In spite of the above, as already reiterated, all upgraded/merged/replaced/promoted scales in revised structure shall at least start with Minimum of the Pay in the Pay Band corresponding to such higher scales.

    From the U.O. Note attached with DOPT OM dated 7.1.2011 by DOE, it is clearly understood that there exists a Minimum Pay in the Pay band for corresponding pre-revised scale.

    In that case, there should be no problem to protect the Minimum Pay in the Pay Band for the concerned upgraded/merged/replaced/promoted scale holders, in case their pay in the pay band happens to be lesser than Minimum Pay in the Pay band.

    The Staff Side may throw light on this issue during the forthcoming 3rd Meeting of the NAC scheduled to be held on 15.2.2011 so that clear picture can emerge. Meanwhile, Shri Rameshwarsinghji may be able to give additional details as sought for by your goodself.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by susant270774 View Post
    I am is also have the same gevance in Rly the post of SE 6500-10500 has been upgraded to 7450-11500 but the fiaxtion has not been done as per upgraded scale i.e 7450 X 1.86 but they only given fixation as per existing basic i.e 6500 why there is difference in fixation of GM Kabui as he was in basic 5500 but he given fixation of 7450. If you have the fixation authentic document related to upgraded scale fixation then give me the document to mail susant27071974@gmail.com
    Kindly refer to OM date 22/12/2010 issued by the DOPT (http://persmin.gov.in/WriteReadData/CS/Steppingup.pdf) in this regard.

    As per the clarification issued by the MOF, the pay as on 1.1.2006 has to be fixed with reference to the lower pre-revised scale (6500-10500 in this case). However, if the govt. servant has been promoted between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008 and the person opts for switchover to 6CPC w.e.f. date of promotion, then MOF has clarified that the pay in such cases would be fixed with reference to the higher pre-revised scale (7450-11500 in this case). DOPT has further, allowed stepping up of pay to seniors who were promoted before 1.1.2006 and are now drawing less than a junior whose pay has been fixed using the fitment table of 7450-11500.

    The clarification issued by MOF though illogical and absurd have been implemented in the CSS/CSSS. This has given rise to a new set of anomalies, which have been indicated in my post at #1.

    The conclusions that can be drawn from the clarification issued by MOF are:

    (a) The CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 is being twisted and re-interpreted (for the benefit of CSS/CSSS) and no new rule has been introduced/formulated or existing rule being modified.
    (b) The magic formula proposed by MOF in upgradation cases can be generalised and implemented irrespective of cadre/office/post, as there cannot be two sets of fundamental rules, one for CSS/CSSS and one for the remaining second class citizens.
    (c) So, if there are similar cases of promotees (promoted between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008) in other cadres (whatever their pre-revised scales be) and where their scales have been upgraded, then they can also opt for fixation w.e.f. date of promotion with reference to the fitment table of the higher pre-revised scale (Unfortunately, the last date for changing your existing option has expired on 31.12.2010).

    Victor
    Last edited by Victor; 07-02-2011 at 08:39 PM.

  19. #19
    Member susant270774 is on a distinguished road
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    As per statement above "As per the clarification issued by the MOF, the pay as on 1.1.2006 has to be fixed with reference to the lower pre-revised scale (6500-10500 in this case). However, if the govt. servant has been promoted between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008 and the person opts for switchover to 6CPC w.e.f. date of promotion, then MOF has clarified that the pay in such cases would be fixed with reference to the higher pre-revised scale (7450-11500 in this case)." I have not seen the MOF memorandum, If you have the clarification then kindly post it . So that we can also take benefit of the fixation. I have talked to my finance people they are aggree to give new fixation and they is no time limit of the fixation as this was not been implemented in Rlys. So if the prior fixation has been done wrong that can be corrent any time.
    I have also talk to the office of the GM Kabui and there SO stated that the G M Kabui pay fixation was done as per upgradation of post in scale of 6500-10500 to 7450-11500 separatly by DOPT vide OM 7/7/08-CS!(A) dt22/12/2010and it is not applicable to any other ministry . Where as the the order given by DOPT reffereing pay commission statement of upgradation of post to prerivisaed scale 7450-11500. How they are saying that this not applicable to other department . Which is very much not justified that onetype of revised pay rule 2008 will applied one person and other type of rule will be applicable other how it si possible. This can be easily challengable to the court of law.
    Senior member Victor please kindly provide me the clarificaion fo MOF as mentioned by you above so that I can challenge my department to get justice for all people like me.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by susant270774 View Post
    As per statement above "As per the clarification issued by the MOF, the pay as on 1.1.2006 has to be fixed with reference to the lower pre-revised scale (6500-10500 in this case). However, if the govt. servant has been promoted between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008 and the person opts for switchover to 6CPC w.e.f. date of promotion, then MOF has clarified that the pay in such cases would be fixed with reference to the higher pre-revised scale (7450-11500 in this case)." I have not seen the MOF memorandum, If you have the clarification then kindly post it . So that we can also take benefit of the fixation. I have talked to my finance people they are aggree to give new fixation and they is no time limit of the fixation as this was not been implemented in Rlys. So if the prior fixation has been done wrong that can be corrent any time.
    I have also talk to the office of the GM Kabui and there SO stated that the G M Kabui pay fixation was done as per upgradation of post in scale of 6500-10500 to 7450-11500 separatly by DOPT vide OM 7/7/08-CS!(A) dt22/12/2010and it is not applicable to any other ministry . Where as the the order given by DOPT reffereing pay commission statement of upgradation of post to prerivisaed scale 7450-11500. How they are saying that this not applicable to other department . Which is very much not justified that onetype of revised pay rule 2008 will applied one person and other type of rule will be applicable other how it si possible. This can be easily challengable to the court of law.
    Senior member Victor please kindly provide me the clarificaion fo MOF as mentioned by you above so that I can challenge my department to get justice for all people like me.
    Kindy refer to my post at #18. The clarification issued by MOF is enclosed with the DOPT's OM dated 22/12/2010 the link of which I have already provided in my previous post.

    Victor

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