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Thread: 2nd or 2nd & 3rd MACP

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    Junior Member Haider Ali Mondal is on a distinguished road
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    Default 2nd or 2nd & 3rd MACP

    A Railway servent join in 1983 and gets his 1st promotion in 1986 then continues 24 years same post. Now whether he is eligible 2nd MACP or 2nd and 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008.Two different opinions arise in our Railway where accounts people saying 2nd MACP eligible as on 1.9.2008 and 3rd MACP as on 2013 (30yrs) and the personnel branch saying 2nd & 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008 (more than 20 yrs same post)as per para 28(ii) of Railway MACP circular.(RBE no-101/2009 , Dt-10.6.2009).

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    Junior Member andy_deeps is on a distinguished road
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    Default Query regarding MACP

    I have posted a query some time back in connection with Para No. 6.1 (a) of the MACP order in respect of grant of ACP during the period from 1.1.2006 to 31.8.2008. My parent office has already written to DOPT in this respect quite a long back. Still the query remains unsolved. Can anyone provide me any inforamtion about the issue whether there are any clarification received from DOPT in this respect and how the case has been handled in each one of your office. Kindly also clarify what is the next course of action to be taken in this respect. I presume many Govt offices have forwarded their queries to DOPT regarding this matter but why is DOPT not issuing any clarification. How much time are we to wait ?? Can going to CAT be one of the options

    Pl clarify and guide

    Andy_deeps

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    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haider Ali Mondal View Post
    A Railway servent join in 1983 and gets his 1st promotion in 1986 then continues 24 years same post. Now whether he is eligible 2nd MACP or 2nd and 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008.Two different opinions arise in our Railway where accounts people saying 2nd MACP eligible as on 1.9.2008 and 3rd MACP as on 2013 (30yrs) and the personnel branch saying 2nd & 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008 (more than 20 yrs same post)as per para 28(ii) of Railway MACP circular.(RBE no-101/2009 , Dt-10.6.2009).
    Dear Friend,

    The person who earned his first promotion in 1986 is eligible for MACP upgradation (2nd) in 2008 (i.e. after 10 years in the same promoted grade or date of implementation of MACPS whichever is later). 3rd MACP upgradation will fall due only on completion of 30 years of service in the entry grade unless he earns promotion in the interim. If the person earns 2nd promotion before completion of 20 years of service the 3rd upgradation will fall due on completion of 10 years of service in the 2nd promoted post, possibly much before 30 years in the entry grade.

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    Member ukkas is on a distinguished road
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    Default macp

    one who awarded macp in the same grade pay of his pormotion post. is he get any financial benefit at the time of regular promotion? replay please

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    Member ukkas is on a distinguished road
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    Default Macp

    Sir,

    Kindly clarify the prescribed qualification prescribed in the RR is essential for the purpose of MACP. For example one LDC who has completed morethan 20 years of service without any financila upgradation since he has not passed the prescribed test in the RR. is he eligible MACP?

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    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukkas View Post
    Sir,

    Kindly clarify the prescribed qualification prescribed in the RR is essential for the purpose of MACP. For example one LDC who has completed morethan 20 years of service without any financila upgradation since he has not passed the prescribed test in the RR. is he eligible MACP?
    Dear Friend,

    Under the MACP Scheme dated May 19, 2009, the financial upgradation under MACPS is subject to ‘fitness’ and is subject to rules governing normal promotion. If the employee does not fulfill the requirements for normal promotion in the hierarchy, then he will not be eligible for non functional upgradation under MACP Scheme.

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    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Default Macp

    Quote Originally Posted by tvenkatam View Post
    Dear Friend,

    Under the MACP Scheme dated May 19, 2009, the financial upgradation under MACPS is subject to ‘fitness’ and is subject to rules governing normal promotion. If the employee does not fulfill the requirements for normal promotion in the hierarchy, then he will not be eligible for non functional upgradation under MACP Scheme.
    Dear Sir,

    Can you pease elaborate the issue please. Under MACP the upgradation is in the hierarchy of grade pay and the functional promotion will be to the next higher grade pay. there is no immediate post in the hierarchy of grade pay. fox ex. take the case of LDC. entry gp is 1900. Promotional gp for udc is 2400. next gp in hierarchy is 2000. Under macp the ldc will get gp of 2000 only in the order of hierarchy and the question of fitness and fulfillment of normal promotional requirements does not arise. Please comment.

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    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by aneesh View Post
    Dear Sir,

    Can you pease elaborate the issue please. Under MACP the upgradation is in the hierarchy of grade pay and the functional promotion will be to the next higher grade pay. there is no immediate post in the hierarchy of grade pay. fox ex. take the case of LDC. entry gp is 1900. Promotional gp for udc is 2400. next gp in hierarchy is 2000. Under macp the ldc will get gp of 2000 only in the order of hierarchy and the question of fitness and fulfillment of normal promotional requirements does not arise. Please comment.
    Dear friend,

    Only solution to the anomalous situation depicted by you is to demand resumption of the old system of financial upgradation in the hierarchy of promotion instead of the newly introduced hierarchy of grade pay. Unfortunately the agenda items for joint committee on MACP Scheme do not include this aspect.

    Coming back to the present issue of fitness, one has to fulfill all conditions for promotion and be fit enough for normal functional promotion for being eligible to grant of upgradation under MACPS (although the upgradation grade pay may not match the promotion grade pay).

  9. #9
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tvenkatam View Post
    Dear friend,

    Only solution to the anomalous situation depicted by you is to demand resumption of the old system of financial upgradation in the hierarchy of promotion instead of the newly introduced hierarchy of grade pay. Unfortunately the agenda items for joint committee on MACP Scheme do not include this aspect.

    Coming back to the present issue of fitness, one has to fulfill all conditions for promotion and be fit enough for normal functional promotion for being eligible to grant of upgradation under MACPS (although the upgradation grade pay may not match the promotion grade pay).
    Dear Sir,

    I have still doubt on your views. Take the example of Group D staff placed in Group C. Many of them have completed 10/20/30 years of service. If one has completed 10 OR 30 years of service he will be eligible for upgradation under MACP and will get gp of Rs.1900 OR 2400 equivalent to LDC or UDC RESPECTIVELY - NON FUNCTIONAL post. They have not even passed matriculation and cannot fulfill the conditions of promotion required for the post of LDC/UDC as per the recruitment rules. Are they not eligible for any upgradation under MACPS ? Other members may also offer views and inform what has been done in these cases in their offices for the benefit of all others.

    With regards

  10. #10
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by aneesh View Post
    Dear Sir,

    I have still doubt on your views. Take the example of Group D staff placed in Group C. Many of them have completed 10/20/30 years of service. If one has completed 10 OR 30 years of service he will be eligible for upgradation under MACP and will get gp of Rs.1900 OR 2400 equivalent to LDC or UDC RESPECTIVELY - NON FUNCTIONAL post. They have not even passed matriculation and cannot fulfill the conditions of promotion required for the post of LDC/UDC as per the recruitment rules. Are they not eligible for any upgradation under MACPS ? Other members may also offer views and inform what has been done in these cases in their offices for the benefit of all others.

    With regards
    Dear Friend,

    In the case of erstwhile ‘Group D’, it’s a bonanza gifted by SCPC. They are not in the direct line of promotion to LDC/UDC. The promotions against the 10% quota and LDE are not considered normal or regular promotional opportunity available for the erstwhile ‘Group D’ employees.

    The equivalence of the grade pay granted to them on upgradation and the grade pay of LDC/UDC can not be drawn for the purpose of ACP/MACP.

    Even in the cases of isolated posts having no promotional avenues one must be fit for promotion and fulfill the bench mark criteria prescribed for the purpose of grant of MACP upgradation.

  11. #11
    Senior Member aneesh is on a distinguished road
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    Default macp

    Quote Originally Posted by tvenkatam View Post
    Dear Friend,

    In the case of erstwhile ‘Group D’, it’s a bonanza gifted by SCPC. They are not in the direct line of promotion to LDC/UDC. The promotions against the 10% quota and LDE are not considered normal or regular promotional opportunity available for the erstwhile ‘Group D’ employees.

    The equivalence of the grade pay granted to them on upgradation and the grade pay of LDC/UDC can not be drawn for the purpose of ACP/MACP.

    Even in the cases of isolated posts having no promotional avenues one must be fit for promotion and fulfill the bench mark criteria prescribed for the purpose of grant of MACP upgradation.
    Sir,

    I would like to have one more clarification on the subject. We have posts Steno Gr. II and Gr. I which were in the pre revised scale of 5000 and 5500 respectively. Both of them have been merged in scpc. Now under MACP after completion of 20 years of service they are eligible for gp 4600. What qualification except grading of good in acr they have to fulfill. No higher post is available in the promotional hierarchy for them. For GR. I regular promotion they have to have graduation. What will happen if they are not graduates.

  12. #12
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aneesh View Post
    Sir,

    I would like to have one more clarification on the subject. We have posts Steno Gr. II and Gr. I which were in the pre revised scale of 5000 and 5500 respectively. Both of them have been merged in scpc. Now under MACP after completion of 20 years of service they are eligible for gp 4600. What qualification except grading of good in acr they have to fulfill. No higher post is available in the promotional hierarchy for them. For GR. I regular promotion they have to have graduation. What will happen if they are not graduates.
    Dear Friend,

    Consequent on merger of the pre-revised scales of 5000 and 5500 to a single grade pay of 4200, Government has also issued instructions to merge the posts carrying pre-revised scales of 5000 and 5500 in the same line of hierarchy, re-designate them and formulate revised RR. This department specific action must be initiated in each department and completed in a given time frame. According to this, your department should decide on whether to continue with two distinct grades of Stenographers or to unite them into one. If a decision is taken (in line with SCPC) to merge both grades, then both posts would be merged into one with a single designation with suitable amendments/formulation of fresh RR. In the event of option of your department to continue with two different grades of Stenographers in the same hierarchy ( as in the present with different essential qualifications), the grade pay of the higher grade (Grade I) may have to be revised upwards (to 4600) with retrospective effect i.e. 01.01.2006.

    If your department performs the above task, your present questions would not arise.

  13. #13
    Junior Member COBRA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvenkatam View Post
    Dear Friend,

    The person who earned his first promotion in 1986 is eligible for MACP upgradation (2nd) in 2008 (i.e. after 10 years in the same promoted grade or date of implementation of MACPS whichever is later). 3rd MACP upgradation will fall due only on completion of 30 years of service in the entry grade unless he earns promotion in the interim. If the person earns 2nd promotion before completion of 20 years of service the 3rd upgradation will fall due on completion of 10 years of service in the 2nd promoted post, possibly much before 30 years in the entry grade.
    Well an official who has joined in 1983 and got first promotion in 1986 and no other promotion thereafter..... was earlier eligible for 2 ACP which would have fallen due in the year....2007.

    So, in my opinion he should opt for II ACP in the Old Scheme and get the pay fixed in the next higher promotional post and then wait for another 6 years and earn his III MACP.

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    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by COBRA View Post
    Well an official who has joined in 1983 and got first promotion in 1986 and no other promotion thereafter..... was earlier eligible for 2 ACP which would have fallen due in the year....2007.

    So, in my opinion he should opt for II ACP in the Old Scheme and get the pay fixed in the next higher promotional post and then wait for another 6 years and earn his III MACP.
    Yes, you are correct.

  15. #15
    Junior Member prabha is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haider Ali Mondal View Post
    A Railway servent join in 1983 and gets his 1st promotion in 1986 then continues 24 years same post. Now whether he is eligible 2nd MACP or 2nd and 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008.Two different opinions arise in our Railway where accounts people saying 2nd MACP eligible as on 1.9.2008 and 3rd MACP as on 2013 (30yrs) and the personnel branch saying 2nd & 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008 (more than 20 yrs same post)as per para 28(ii) of Railway MACP circular.(RBE no-101/2009 , Dt-10.6.2009).
    you should have already got 2nd ACP in 2007 after completion of 24 yrs. and 3rd MACP w.e.f. 1.9.2008

  16. #16
    Junior Member prabha is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haider Ali Mondal View Post
    A Railway servent join in 1983 and gets his 1st promotion in 1986 then continues 24 years same post. Now whether he is eligible 2nd MACP or 2nd and 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008.Two different opinions arise in our Railway where accounts people saying 2nd MACP eligible as on 1.9.2008 and 3rd MACP as on 2013 (30yrs) and the personnel branch saying 2nd & 3rd MACP as on 1.9.2008 (more than 20 yrs same post)as per para 28(ii) of Railway MACP circular.(RBE no-101/2009 , Dt-10.6.2009).
    sorry you you will get your 3rd MACP w.e.f. 2013 and not w.e.f. 1.9.2008

  17. #17
    Junior Member prabha is on a distinguished road
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    Pl clarify the following
    1) During ACP 1999 one has to fulfill all promotional norms as per RR for upgradation . But if an employee does not fulfil required promotional norms on the date of eligibility, will he be granted upgradation on a later date when he becomes eligible as per promotional norms.

  18. #18
    Senior Member RKPATHAK is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Rule of MACP is quite clear. Three upgradations on completion of 10, 20 & 30 Years service. Rackon the length of service as on 1.9.2008 and calculate the eligibility of MACP

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