PDA

View Full Version : upgradation & fixation



mk1969
18-09-2008, 01:07 PM
In Coast Guard, pay scale of 3200-85-4900 + spl pay 50/- of Pradhan Navik upgraded to 4500-7000 by the Govt. Now my question is all existing pradhan naviks will be fixed in which scale and how. How the seniority will be maintained. As per clarification given by ministry, the pay will be fixed as per the fitment table of pre-revised scale. What is the pre-revised scale - 3200-85-4000 or 4500-7000. Now there are three scales namely
(1) 3200-85-4900 = Existing scale
(2) 4500-7000 = Pre-revised scale (upgraded)
(3) 5200-20200 = Revised Pay band/scale
Can anybody clarify this as correct or not?

jitendraacr
18-09-2008, 10:09 PM
:)
In Coast Guard, pay scale of 3200-85-4900 + spl pay 50/- of Pradhan Navik upgraded to 4500-7000 by the Govt. Now my question is all existing pradhan naviks will be fixed in which scale and how. How the seniority will be maintained. As per clarification given by ministry, the pay will be fixed as per the fitment table of pre-revised scale. What is the pre-revised scale - 3200-85-4000 or 4500-7000. Now there are three scales namely
(1) 3200-85-4900 = Existing scale
(2) 4500-7000 = Pre-revised scale (upgraded)
(3) 5200-20200 = Revised Pay band/scale
Can anybody clarify this as correct or not?

as per clarification pre revised scale will be 3200-4900/-. However since it has been upgraded to 4500-7000/-, your pay will not be less than the amount in fitment tables enclosed with mof om dated 30.08.08 corresponding to Rs.4500/-. For every two stages so bunched benefit of one increment will be given as per clause A(ii) below rule 7 of CCS(RP) Rules 2008. In your case all the stages below Rs4500/- in pay scale of 3200-4900 will be fixed at same stage in upgraded scale. therefore add one increment for every third stage of the ftment table corresponding to Rs.4500-7000/- taking the minimum as first stage. clarification given by mof dated 13.09.08 is not clear on this issue and needs further clarification.

mk1969
19-09-2008, 09:04 AM
Thanks jitendra. Still one doubt is pending. what do you mean by stage. In the 4500-7000 scale minimum is 4500 next 4625 and 4750 so on... So 4500 is a stage, 4625 is a stage am I right? If it is so adding one increment for every third stage of 4500-7000 scale means Rs4750. Pse fix my pay asper details below if u can spare some time
My basic on 01.01.06 = 3965
My date of increment was May 06
Thanks once again

jitendraacr
19-09-2008, 10:40 PM
an employee drawing basic at Rs.3200/- in pre revised scale of Rs.3200-4900/-, will get his pay fixed at Rs.8370/- on upgradation of scale along with grade pay of rs.2800/-. Similarly who is drawing basic of Rs.3285/- will also draw the same pay. But employee drawing 3370/- will get 8370+one increment @3% to avoid bunching. Next stage in pre revised scale will also fixed at same amount thereafter one more increment will be given. Calculate ur pay in this way and got it verified from ur Accounts Department. U may also read carefully the Illustration 4A of Notification and also the fitment table for pay scale of Rs.2500-3200/- to understand clearly the gimmicks of bunching and upgradation. Hope I am right in my calculation.

vikramadg
20-09-2008, 10:37 PM
an employee drawing basic at Rs.3200/- in pre revised scale of Rs.3200-4900/-, will get his pay fixed at Rs.8370/- on upgradation of scale along with grade pay of rs.2800/-. Similarly who is drawing basic of Rs.3285/- will also draw the same pay. But employee drawing 3370/- will get 8370+one increment @3% to avoid bunching. Next stage in pre revised scale will also fixed at same amount thereafter one more increment will be given. Calculate ur pay in this way and got it verified from ur Accounts Department. U may also read carefully the Illustration 4A of Notification and also the fitment table for pay scale of Rs.2500-3200/- to understand clearly the gimmicks of bunching and upgradation. Hope I am right in my calculation.

Pay fixation of a teacher drawing 4500 on 01-01-06 in the scale of 4500-125-7000.
His fixation on 01-01-2006 will be:

1. Existing Pay Scale: 4500-125-7000
2. Pay Band Applicable: 9300-34800
3. Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 4500
4. Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 8370(I suspect this should be 9300 because it is the lower limit of pay band 2)
5. Pay in the Pay Band: 8370
6. Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 8370
7. Grade Pay attached to the scale: 4200
8. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 12570
9. Minimum of the pay in this grade: ?????????
10. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: ??????

Just provide me answers to the above two blanks.I shall be highly grateful to you .

mk1969
22-09-2008, 05:46 PM
Bunching still not understood. Why this pay commission has done their work so confusingly that no body will understand their work. But in PB-3 & PB-4 no problem of bunching and all. It is not the existing pay X 1.86 rule applied in PB-3 & PB-4. Why it is so. Can any body explain.

vikramadg
22-09-2008, 06:37 PM
Bunching still not understood. Why this pay commission has done their work so confusingly that no body will understand their work. But in PB-3 & PB-4 no problem of bunching and all. It is not the existing pay X 1.86 rule applied in PB-3 & PB-4. Why it is so. Can any body explain.
Bunching occurs when more than 2 years joinees come at a single basic pay wherein pay of seniors and juniors are fixed at same value. To alleviate this problem, pay commission has provided one increments for every 2 years of seniority i.e not more than 2 year joinees are top be clubbed together in same basic pay.
BTW Jitenderacr, u have not yet replied to my post. Kindly do so.

KumarKumar
22-09-2008, 09:45 PM
Bunching occurs when more than 2 years joinees come at a single basic pay wherein pay of seniors and juniors are fixed at same value. To alleviate this problem, pay commission has provided one increments for every 2 years of seniority i.e not more than 2 year joinees are top be clubbed together in same basic pay.
BTW Jitenderacr, u have not yet replied to my post. Kindly do so.

Good explanation of bunching. keep it up. Keep guiding us.All the best.

KumarKumar
22-09-2008, 09:53 PM
Pay fixation of a teacher drawing 4500 on 01-01-06 in the scale of 4500-125-7000.
His fixation on 01-01-2006 will be:

1. Existing Pay Scale: 4500-125-7000
2. Pay Band Applicable: 9300-34800
3. Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 4500
4. Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 8370(I suspect this should be 9300 because it is the lower limit of pay band 2)
5. Pay in the Pay Band: 8370
6. Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 8370
7. Grade Pay attached to the scale: 4200
8. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 12570
9. Minimum of the pay in this grade: ?????????
10. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: ??????

Just provide me answers to the above two blanks.I shall be highly grateful to you .



Your point No.4 assumption is wrong. 4500 prerevised is 5200 revised running pay band. This is also PB-2. So 8370 stands and not 9300 which is for only 5000, 5500 and 6500 prerevised. So, your 12570/- is right.

jitendraacr
22-09-2008, 10:31 PM
dear vikramadg. To which query i have not replied. pl clarify.

mk1969
23-09-2008, 08:49 AM
Bunching occurs when more than 2 years joinees come at a single basic pay wherein pay of seniors and juniors are fixed at same value. To alleviate this problem, pay commission has provided one increments for every 2 years of seniority i.e not more than 2 year joinees are top be clubbed together in same basic pay.
BTW Jitenderacr, u have not yet replied to my post. Kindly do so.
Thanks Dear Vikram for detailed explanation of Bunching.

thomaskprakash
23-09-2008, 10:52 PM
an employee drawing basic at Rs.3200/- in pre revised scale of Rs.3200-4900/-, will get his pay fixed at Rs.8370/- on upgradation of scale along with grade pay of rs.2800/-. Similarly who is drawing basic of Rs.3285/- will also draw the same pay. But employee drawing 3370/- will get 8370+one increment @3% to avoid bunching. Next stage in pre revised scale will also fixed at same amount thereafter one more increment will be given. Calculate ur pay in this way and got it verified from ur Accounts Department. U may also read carefully the Illustration 4A of Notification and also the fitment table for pay scale of Rs.2500-3200/- to understand clearly the gimmicks of bunching and upgradation. Hope I am right in my calculation.

but illustration 4A of the notification does not support your claim. it does not allow 1.86 times of minimum of upgraded scale of pay.new pay is fixed at rs. 5820 (3125*1.86) and not the minimum of upgraded scale of 5960 (3200*1.86). please clarify.

vikramadg
23-09-2008, 11:04 PM
dear vikramadg. To which query i have not replied. pl clarify.
Pay fixation of a teacher drawing 4500 on 01-01-06 in the scale of 4500-125-7000.
His fixation on 01-01-2006 will be:

1. Existing Pay Scale: 4500-125-7000
2. Pay Band Applicable: 9300-34800
3. Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 4500
4. Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 8370(I suspect this should be 9300 because it is the lower limit of pay band 2)
5. Pay in the Pay Band: 8370
6. Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 8370
7. Grade Pay attached to the scale: 4200
8. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 12570
9. Minimum of the pay in this grade: ?????????
10. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: ??????

Just provide me answers to the above two blanks.I shall be highly grateful to you .

vikramadg
23-09-2008, 11:08 PM
Pay fixation of a teacher drawing 4500 on 01-01-06 in the scale of 4500-125-7000.
His fixation on 01-01-2006 will be:

1. Existing Pay Scale: 4500-125-7000
2. Pay Band Applicable: 9300-34800
3. Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 4500
4. Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 8370(I suspect this should be 9300 because it is the lower limit of pay band 2)
5. Pay in the Pay Band: 8370
6. Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 8370
7. Grade Pay attached to the scale: 4200
8. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 12570
9. Minimum of the pay in this grade: ?????????
10. Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: ??????

Just provide me answers to the above two blanks.I shall be highly grateful to you .

pummypipal
24-09-2008, 08:56 AM
Sir my wife is a staff nurse and her pay scale is 5000-150-8000. Her basic as on 01-01-2006 is 6200 (08 increments) and her increment month is October. Now 6th CPC has recommended the pay scale of 7450-225-11500 (Grade pay 4600) for staff nurses.
Now as per your illustration her Pay fixation will be like she is drawing drawing 6200 on 01-01-06 in the scale of 5000-150-8000.
Her fixation on 01-01-2006 will be:
Existing Pay Scale: 5000-150-8000
Pay Band Applicable: 9300-34800
Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 6200
Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 11532
Pay in the Pay Band: 11540
Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 11540 (Not sure about this bunching process)
Grade Pay attached to the scale: 4600
Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 16140
Minimum of the pay in this grade: 17140
Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 17140

Sir But my wife's department has fixed her basic pay on 01-01-2006 as 16140/- only, whereas her juniors who were appointed on or after 01-01-2006 are fixed at 17140/- basic (as this is the minimum basic for new entrants in the pay scale of 7450-225-11500). Now my wife who should have been given weightage for her past service is even denied for keeping her at par with her juniors. Please tell me what procedure should I adopt now?

Pls help

jitendraacr
24-09-2008, 10:59 PM
my dear thomas see again the illustration 4a. I am not wrong. there pay scale of 3050 has been upgraded to 3200 only. and the minimum of the 3200 scale is 6060. the same is given to the employee whoose basic was 3125 after bunching benefit. see the fitment table corresponding to pre revised scale. As on date I am absolutely right. need further clarification send private message so that I could easily check it out.

jitendraacr
24-09-2008, 11:10 PM
dear ms/mr pummy pipal. pl try to understand this. Since minimum revised pay corresponding to 7450 is 13860/- any one whoose basic is 5000 as on 1/1/06 will be fixed at 13860 due to upgradation of scale of 5000 to 7450/-. Basic pay of Rs.5150 will also be fixed at the same 13860/-. basic pay of 5300 will be fixed 13860+3% increment. forth one at the same. fifth one will again get an increment. again the seventh one will get an increment and soon. seventh and eight increment in prerevised scale will be same revised pay in upgraded scale which is 13860 + 3 increments @3% whereever the new one will get 13860 basic. This is bunching. hope u have understand it.

mk1969
29-09-2008, 01:18 PM
I am in Indian Coast Guard and my pay is fixed by CDA (Navy) as follows for Sep 2008.
Old details:-
My old pay scale = 3200-85-4900 with spl pay 50/-
My basic pay as on 01.01.06 = Rs 3965/-
My date of increment = 01 May 2005
My date of promotion 01.05 2003
Asper recommendationof 6th pay commission and aceeptance by Govt, my scale is upgraded to 4500-7000
____________________________________
But my pay is fixed as follows as per salary statement for Sep 08

BP+ SPl = 8340+50 = 8390
Grade Pay = 2800
DA = 1782
HRA = 2228 (20 % as B1 city)
TA = 800
DA on TA = 128

Now Mr Jitendar, please help me to clarify that whether the above fixation is correct? Then what about upgradation to 4500/- This fixation is done as per fitment table of 3200-85-4900. You said that on upgradation the minimum in 4500-7000 i.e. 8370 to be given and bunching benefit also. But nothing happened. Can uexplain? waiting for ur reply. Also the special pay of Rs 50 is not removed. It is supposed tobe removed w.e.f Sep 08.

mk1969
05-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Pse reply any body for my above query

jitendraacr
05-10-2008, 05:45 PM
dear friend,
Your pay fixation in my view is not correct. Please read Rule 7 A (ii) of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 and its proviso. It clearly provides how the pay is to be fixed in upgradation. I still believe that my concept is correct but it is also a fact that many departments are playing safe by fixing the pay in the manner stated by you. Pl ask them what will be the pay of new recruits in your grade. He definitely will draw more than you. Steping up is not the solution of it. Pl do try to seekclarification from MoF through proper channel or through RTI Act. There is no other way to avoid injustice. Clarification in this regard is must. I have also moved an aplication for this clarification and hope all those who are suffering will do the same. It is necessary to submit our grievance before anamoly committee at an early date. ACT today don' wait.

pummypipal
06-10-2008, 12:43 AM
dear ms/mr pummy pipal. pl try to understand this. Since minimum revised pay corresponding to 7450 is 13860/- any one whoose basic is 5000 as on 1/1/06 will be fixed at 13860 due to upgradation of scale of 5000 to 7450/-. Basic pay of Rs.5150 will also be fixed at the same 13860/-. basic pay of 5300 will be fixed 13860+3% increment. forth one at the same. fifth one will again get an increment. again the seventh one will get an increment and soon. seventh and eight increment in prerevised scale will be same revised pay in upgraded scale which is 13860 + 3 increments @3% whereever the new one will get 13860 basic. This is bunching. hope u have understand it.


Dear Jitendra Ji

My wife's basic pay as on 01-01-2006 is fixed at 16140 please tell me what should I do now?

pummypipal
06-10-2008, 09:25 PM
Dear Jitendra Ji

Please advise me what should I do now? Can you please tell me whether the clarification in r.o. fixation will be given by DOPT or Min of Fin. Eagerly waiting for your reply.

jitendraacr
06-10-2008, 10:14 PM
To pummypipal
I supposed that a clarification on pay fixation can be given by DoP&T only. But since the Anamoly Committee has been formed under MoF, it will be better to submit your request to MoF people also. i have already sought clarifications on this issue. On receipt of any thing whether positive or negative I will post it on board. Till then your wife can request for stteping up of her pay w.r.t. her junior. There will be no problem on it.

medbas
18-10-2008, 06:01 PM
dear ms/mr pummy pipal. pl try to understand this. Since minimum revised pay corresponding to 7450 is 13860/- any one whoose basic is 5000 as on 1/1/06 will be fixed at 13860 due to upgradation of scale of 5000 to 7450/-. Basic pay of Rs.5150 will also be fixed at the same 13860/-. basic pay of 5300 will be fixed 13860+3% increment. forth one at the same. fifth one will again get an increment. again the seventh one will get an increment and soon. seventh and eight increment in prerevised scale will be same revised pay in upgraded scale which is 13860 + 3 increments @3% whereever the new one will get 13860 basic. This is bunching. hope u have understand it.

Dear Mr.Jitender,
I need a clarification on bunching aspect after goining through Gconnect discussions especially your apt answers. can you tell me whether bunching is allowable only for the upgraded pay scales? I will give a concrete instance:
Pre revised pay as on 1.1.2006 =10750 ( Existing scale 8000-275-13500-S15)was fixed in the revised pay structure 9300-34800 with GP5400 with out bunching. The proviso to rule 7(1) (A) does not restrict its applicability to upgrded pay bands alone. In the cited case above since the revised pay strucure / band starts with 9300 which is less than the pay one is drawing ie 10750, would your above anlaogy in the quote apply here? would appreciate your reply.

sudacgwb
18-10-2008, 09:19 PM
Comparing 9300 the min pay band with the pre revised basic of 10750 in incorrect. There is multplication factor for the pre-revised basic to look in to the new pay in the pay band.

However the pb-3 is accommodating 3 grade pays (junior, senior and JAG) with minimum entry salary in the pay bands. With this reason one should expect the govt to issue orders that the revised pay will not be less than the pay fixed for new entrants after 1.1.2006. This error has to be corrected.

medbas
19-10-2008, 12:37 PM
Comparing 9300 the min pay band with the pre revised basic of 10750 in incorrect. There is multplication factor for the pre-revised basic to look in to the new pay in the pay band.

However the pb-3 is accommodating 3 grade pays (junior, senior and JAG) with minimum entry salary in the pay bands. With this reason one should expect the govt to issue orders that the revised pay will not be less than the pay fixed for new entrants after 1.1.2006. This error has to be corrected.

Dear sir,
It is not pb3, it is pb2 last stage(S15) prior to entry level. would that make a difference?

jitendraacr
19-10-2008, 10:48 PM
Dear medbas

Bunching is definitely not for upgradation cases only. though MoF hass not given its benefit even in the case of upgradation. Their clarification dated 13.10.2008 is far away from any bunching benefit. what they are thinking is just unacceptable to any government servant.
However in your case, I could not understand your problem. In my view prerevised pay of 10750 will be fixed at Rs.25400/- in PB-2 as per fitment tables provised by MoF. How could bunching be applied in this case when no any two stages are fixed equally. please clarify further.

medbas
20-10-2008, 08:46 PM
Bunching is definitely not for upgradation cases only. though MoF hass not given its benefit even in the case of upgradation. Their clarification dated 13.10.2008 is far away from any bunching benefit. what they are thinking is just unacceptable to any government servant.
However in your case, I could not understand your problem. In my view prerevised pay of 10750 will be fixed at Rs.25400/- in PB-2 as per fitment tables provised by MoF. How could bunching be applied in this case when no any two stages are fixed equally. please clarify further.[/QUOTE]

Dear jitender,
Yes I need to make myself more clear. My question is whether bunching is only for cases where pay commission/ gov have revised the existing pay scales under part C of the notification. I hope you are not refering to " up gradtion" under proposed ACP scheme in your above reply.

Again I should tell you that I am in the present payscale 8000-275-13500 at the basic pay of 10750/-on 1.1.06.( after getting 2nd ACP for 24 years of service)
Further under part C Section II of pay commission notification Sl. No. 9 of the table for Ministry of finance the existing superintendents scale of 7500-12000 stands revised as 7500-12000 with GP 4800 and 8000-13500 with GP 5400 (after 4 years). The scale 8000-275-13500 was the ACP pay for the superintendents pre 6th paycommission .

Further under rule 7(A)(ii) after the multiplication factor of 1.86 on the basic as on 1.1.2006 if the minimum of the revised payband/payscale is more than such arrived amount the pay shall be fixed at the minium of the revised pay band pay scale. otherwise proviso for bunching will have to be given effect to.Therefore is it not correct to say the basic pay as on 1.1.06 beyond 9300(8000 + 275X7stages) will have to be provided bunching. is it not that 7 stages are going to be fixed at equally at 9300X1.86?

What is the "consecutive stages' mentioned in the proviso to the above rule in your opinion?

I solicit your reply with best wishes for you & Gconnect comrades.

sudacgwb
21-10-2008, 02:43 PM
Govt has in the latest Order has said Upgradation means change in the Grade Pay only. If this is true then what is merger? Govt definition of Upgradation is in reality MERGER.

I must point out the level to which the govt. competence has come down in the important ministry like Finance and DOPT.

The interpretation given by the govt. on Upgradation wont hold water from a legal point of view.

Bunching effect is out of place here. What is required is to ensure the minimum of the upgraded scale is ensured to all whose basic was less than the minimum of the upgraded scale. Talking of bunching will dilute the issue.

I am sure yet another modification comes at any time and in any case during the disposal of anamaly committee report.