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AGGARWAL PK
18-09-2008, 11:17 AM
The Supdts of the customs and Central Excise have been grated pre-revised scale of Rs.8000-13500 after comletion of 4 years service in the scale of Rs.7500-12000. Consequently they are entitled for grade pay of Rs.5400/- in PB-2 scale on comletion of 4 years service in the Supdt's garde. The officers aleady competing service of 4 years on 1.1.2006, should be granted garde pay of 5400 wef 1.1.2006. In our commissionerate it is not being done with plea that grade pay will be granted after completion of 4 yrs service in PB-2 with grade pay of Rs.4800.

The officers in other commissionerates and Income Tax organisation are requested to check up position and take up matter with authorities concern for corrective measures. The present status of practice for fixation of pay may please be interacted.

raja
18-09-2008, 01:28 PM
since the pay scale of Supdts. has been upgraded to 7500-12000 (Pre-revised) w.e.f. 21.04.2004, U will be getting the upgradation to 8000-13500 scale only after completion of 4 years from 21.04.2004 i.e. from 21.04.2008.

coolgoose2
22-09-2008, 03:46 PM
since the pay scale of Supdts. has been upgraded to 7500-12000 (Pre-revised) w.e.f. 21.04.2004, U will be getting the upgradation to 8000-13500 scale only after completion of 4 years from 21.04.2004 i.e. from 21.04.2008.

both of you are wrong..

Page 31 in RESOLUTION to the 6th CPC, notified in the Gazette of 30/08/2008 reads as follows :
e) Group B officers of Departments of Posts,Revenue, etc., will be granted Grade pay of Rs.5400/- in PB-2 on non-functional basis after 4 years of regular service in Grade pay of Rs.4800/- in PB-2.
Correct interpretation of the above CCS (RP) Rules 2008 would be as under :
Part - C of Section I of said Rules notified in the Gazette No. (GSR 622(E) at page no. 49, with the heading -
“REVISED PAY STRUCTURES FOR CERTAIN POSTS IN MINISTRIES, DEPARTMENTS AND UNION TERRITORIES ”
states that :
“The revised pay structure mentioned in column (5) and (6) of this part of the Notification for the posts mentioned in Column(2) have been APPROVED BY THE GOVERNMENT.....'
Under this table (page no. 54) for the Dept. of Revenue-Sr. No. 9, the posts of ITO/Supdt./Appraisers etc. are mentioned and their present scale is shown as 7500-12000 i.e. S-14 and their Revised scale is mentioned as 7500-12000 and 8000-13500 i.e. S-15 (after 4 years). Correspondingly the Grade pay is shown as Rs.4800/- and Rs.5400/- respectively.
Therefore, Part C of the said Rules overrides the General Clause in Resolution i.e. all Supdts will be in the pre-revised pay scale of 7500-12000 with a Grade Pay of Rs. 4800/-, right from the date of their taking over as Supdt and on completion of 4 years, will be eligible for the pre-revised scale of 8000-13500 i.e. S-15 with a Grade pay of Rs. 5400/-. But the Sr. Scale and more importantly, the Grade Pay of Rs. 5400 would be granted to all such Supdts who have completed 4 or more years of regular service as Supdt, on 01.01.2006, which is the date of effect of CCS (RP) Rules 2008.
Thus for pay fixation, page no. 21 & 22 of the office memorandum F.No.1/1/2008-IC dated 30/08/2008 issued by the Implementation cell of the Dept. of Expenditure, wherein the table relevant to the scales S-14 & S-15, will have to used, as under :
a. For all Supdts, who have completed 4 years as Supdt, as on 01.01.2006, the basic pay (pay in the pay band + grade pay) shall be fixed by using the fixation table at page no. 22 of the said memorandum relevant to the Scale S-15 in P.B.-2 i.e. with a Grade Pay of Rs. 5400/-.
b. For all Supdts, who have not completed 4 years as ITO, as on 01.01.2006, the basic pay (pay in the pay band + grade pay) shall be fixed by using the fixation table at page no. 21 of the said memorandum relevant to the Scale S-14 in P.B.-2 i.e. with a Grade Pay of Rs. 4,800/-.
Further order No.21/36/03-CS.I dated 13.11.2003 in respect of grant of NFSG to Section Officers of CSS, which is the basis for granting NFSG to similarly placed officers of other department. Here it is clearly mentioned that 4 year regular service in the grade of Section Officer is the requirement for grant of NFSG. Hence, it is only logical that the same be applied mutatis-mutandis in the case of Superintendents also.


Also the in respect of ITOs in Kerala the fixation orders has been issued along these lines;i.e., fixing pay in the Grade Pay of 5400 after completion of four years as ITO as per the CCS(Revised Pay) Rules 2008

nkjain
23-09-2008, 02:00 PM
The correct position is as follows:

1. The pay scale of Superintendent of Central Excise has been upgraded as per Note 2A of Rule 7 of the said Rules which has been indicated at sl. No. 9 under the heading ‘Ministry of Finance’ in Section II of Part-C of the First Schedule of the said Rules. As per upgradation, the Superintendent of Central Excise has been placed in the pay scale of 7500-12000 at the start and 8000-13500 after four years.

2. As upgradation has taken place in the existing scale before deciding the Grade Pay in terms of the said Rules, Superintendents should be placed in the pay scale of 8000-13500 for granting the corresponding grade pay of 5400 as and when they complete 4 years from their initial date of receipt of the Superintendent’s pay scale. The above matter has already been clarified vide DOPT Office Memorandum no. 22011/10/84-Estt. (D) dated 04.02.1992.

3. The scheme of change over of pay scale from 7500-12000 to 8000-13500 provided by the new revised pay rules is different from what was available to SO of CSS previously. The SOs were used to be placed in 8000-13500 after deptt. order taking into view the ACRs etc. as like promotion and the pay fixation was used to be done as like promotion as per DOPT OM No.21/36/03-CS.I dated 13.11.2003. This is not the case now with the revised pay rules.

4. As per ACP scheme issued vide DOPT OM no. No.35034/1/97-Estt(D) dated 09.08.1999 which envisages that financial upgradation under the Scheme shall be given to the next higher grade in accordance with the existing hierarchy in a cadre/category of posts (Para 7 of Annexure-I of the said OM), Inspectors are placed in the pay scale of next higher grade i.e., Superintendent after 12 years of regular service. No pay fixation takes place at the time of actual promotion in the grade of Superintendent in such cases as per the said ACP scheme as per Para 9 of Annexure-I of the said OM which stipulates that the financial benefit allowed under the ACP Scheme shall be final and no pay-fixation benefit shall accrue at the time of regular promotion i.e. posting against a functional post in the higher grade. The matter has again been clarified vide DOPT OM issued vide F.No.35034/1/97-Estt(D)(Vol.IV) dated 10.02.2000 at point no. 20 of the Annexure that upgradation under ACP shall be treated on par with regular promotion in so far as pay-fixation is concerned.

5. If the Superintendents are placed in a higher pay scale vide the revised pay rules, the pay scale of those Inspectors who have been granted the pay scale of Superintendent on first ACP will accordingly be placed in a higher pay scale as per ACP scheme issued vide DOPT OM no. No.35034/1/97-Estt(D) dated 09.08.1999. Therefore, Inspectors drawing pay of Superintendent as per the above ACP scheme will be placed in 8000- 13500 after completion of four years from the date of ACP as per the said revised pay rules notified on 29.08.2008.

coolgoose2
23-09-2008, 03:30 PM
Hi all

Wonderful

this thread is getting warm.. nice.. Thanks to nkjain

mvsprasad2711
23-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Before coming into conclusions, we should understand the terms; "Rules","Resolution" and "Memorandum". perhaps we all know rules, in administration the ultimate. Resolution is a formal expression of intention. By issuing Resolution , the govt agreed to implement the contents mentioned therein. They are not enforceable in normal course and we can not act on it. Memorandum explains the rules and its intention and procedure for implementation and clarifies certain things. They are next to rules and binding on the administration. In the present case, the rules indicate only grade pay (in new scale) applicable to the Superintendents etc with 4 years of regular service. But to implement the same there must some rules fixing the conditions and procedure for granting the benefit. Perhaps it is the duty of the concerned ministry to issue such rules. So I think we have to wait for the rules atleast OM clarifying the issue and prescribing procedure.
Regarding the eligibility, I feel that the officer must be Superintendent etc and mere placing in the scale of 7500 will not suffice. I doubt the eligibility of inspectors with ACP. As the four years period is mentioned against old scales in the Rules, the argument that four years are to be completed in the 4800 grade sans logic. Further as I said Resolution wording is not statutory. Regarding applicability from 2004 on wards, I feel the the thrust is on the cadre and not on the scale. Let us wait for the Rules to come! Perhaps the statue makers are also busy in solving problems in fixation of their own pay!

coolgoose2
25-09-2008, 08:27 PM
H guys, can we take a poll on how the selection grade is interpreted.

1. in IT departments in Kerala, NFSG is given from 4 years from the date of promotion or 01-01-2006 whichever is later;

2. In Central Excise and Customs Departments No NFSG; interpretation being NFSG only after four years working in grade pay 4800;

Any inputs on how it is done in outside kerala?

thanks in advance
:):):):)

nsdev007
29-09-2008, 03:45 PM
dopt has already clarified the matter very clearly. quoted below

1. O.M. No. 22011/10/84-Estt.(D) dated 4.2.92 issued by the DoP&T on the subject of “Revision of pay scale/upgradation of the posts – Date of regular appointment of the incumbents to the upgraded post” should be referred to. Therein in Point No. 2(2) it has been stated that: “Where the upgradation involves a higher replacement scale without higher responsibilities or higher qualifications but with a higher eligibility service, the incumbent need not be assessed for their suitability but it should be ensured that they have completed the requisite qualifying service for appointments to the upgraded post. In case they had completed the qualifying service on or before the date notified by the Government, they may be appointed to the upgraded post from that date. In the case of others who fulfill the qualifying service on a later date, they should be appointed to the upgraded post from the date on which they complete the qualifying service. This would be subject to the condition that irrespective of the date of appointment, the original seniority of the incumbent in the grade prior to upgradation will be maintained for appointment to the upgraded post.”

2. The Chief Commissioner of Income Tax, Bangalore I vide Office Order 0006/2008-09 dated 24.09.2008 (F No 8 (1)/2008-09/CCIT – I) has issued directions to all DDO’s under his jurisdiction to grant grade pay of 5400/- to ITO’s on completion of 4 years of service.

balajeeva97
29-09-2008, 04:43 PM
If the interpretation that 4 years of service with GP4800 holds good then. all inspectors after ACP on 010106 should be given 5400 GP on 01012010. Hence this interpretation will not hold good. Let the DDO geese may interpret like that. A clarification fron the ministry will resolve the issue.

balajeeva97
07-10-2008, 09:38 AM
Please visit aiceia.blogspot.com for details.

coolgoose2
10-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Hi all

Pl find attached herewith the letter written by the Chief Commissioner of Income Tax Bangalore regarding fixation of ITOs 5400 grade pay after four years of service as ITO. The same principles can be applied in the case of Supdt of Customs and Supdt of Central Excise.

Try to convince your Commissioner and Association/ Federation for early solution of this issue

All the best

jitendraacr
10-10-2008, 11:31 PM
All members should come forward with these information which are in the interest of large section of our friends. The post of coolgoose2 should be appreciated. Well done

dsp
13-10-2008, 06:56 AM
I do not agree with nkjain. since the upgradation to pay scale of 8000 is subject to 4 yrs 'regular service' it should be subject to DPC and since it is promotion from one pay scale to another one increment should be allowable in junior scale as per rule 13 of revised pay rules at the time of upgradation as used to be done in case of ACITs.

manu
13-10-2008, 08:28 PM
The views expressed by nkjain is totally in agreement with new revised pay rules as well as existing ACP Rules and subsequent clarifications. All superintedents and Inspectors( After ACP) who have completed 4 years in 7500 should have been fixed in 5400 immediatly. No further clarification required. .

manu
12-11-2008, 02:53 PM
implementation cell of ministry of expenditure has totally endorsed th eview of mr N.K. Jain see F.No.22/2/2008-Ic-II dated 30.10.2008

badri mannargudi
12-11-2008, 08:27 PM
I do not know what NKJain saheb stated originally.
But I do not agree with Shree Manujee.
The clarification dated 30.10.2008, Sl No.(1) clearly and unambiguously speaks of Four year Regular Service after PROMOTION. The writing on the wall is loud and clear.
Promotion is totally different from granting higher scale (on Non Functional Basis) on ACP is different.

Second and third answer in the RTI Answer may be considered against the respective query.

With regards.,
Badri

manu
13-11-2008, 12:00 PM
I am typing the contents

F.No.22/2/2008-IC.II
Government of India
Ministry of Expenditure
Implementation CELL

New Delhi, the30 October,2008
Subject-Application of Shri Rajiv Kumar Shrivastava under RTI Act.

With reference to the RTI Cell's UO No.3(207)/2008-RTI dated 14th October,2008, the applicant may be informed that
(1) Four years of regular service rendered in the pre-revised scale of Rs.7500-12500 will counted from the date of promotion in this grade.
(2) As on 1.1.2006 a Government servant's pay will be fixed in the scale of in which he was placed on that day irrespective of the fact that the scale was granted to him on regular promotion or under ACP.
(3) Government's decision regarding the introduction of the modified ACP Scheme is to be implemented by DOPT.

2. This issues with the approval of Director(IC).





(Renu Karkkar)
Under Secretary(IC-II)

balajeeva97
15-11-2008, 11:39 AM
In central Excise, Inspectors are getting promotion only after putting 17 years of regular service or more. As per the modified ACp second ACp is to be given after completion of 20 years of service. then what's the use of granting GP 5400 after 4 years of regular service as supdt. It should be 4 years regular service in GP4800 or 4 years service in prerevised scale of 7500-13000 and not 4 years of regular service as supdt.In other words it should cover Inspectors who got ACP also. Otherwise it will be use only for examiners, POs and other Central Excise Inspectors(reserved category) who got Promotion after putting 5, 8 and 12-13 years of service plus direct recruit appraiser and technocrats.

manu
15-11-2008, 02:23 PM
dear balajee, either Inspectors or Superintedents who have completed 4 years in grade-S-14 ( Scale 7500-12500) will be fixed in grade pay 5400. It is claified by this reply. why are you confused?
.

badri mannargudi
16-11-2008, 05:06 PM
.........and the discussion continues;-
Friends,
I am clear and there is no confusion. It is not my intention to view the subject with any coloured glass.
(The Reply by GOI (to the RTI Queries) refers.
It may be appreciated that the second and third queries pertained to Second ACP and therefore the replies given on Query number (ii) and (iii) are not relevant to the issue on hand (when will one get Grade pay of 5400?).
In other words, on, Second ACP every such officer (irrespective whether or Superintendent,but falling short of "Regular service of 4 years") will go over to GP of 5400. ( This position will become apparant when the Modified ACP OM is issued). Here the difference is that there would be an increase of Basic pay by sum of 3% of BASIC plus 3% of Grade pay).

One technical problem lies here. As superintendent since 2002, October, (inspector 1991 batch), my friend would be getting 5400 since October 2006.- going by the said "RTI Reply". Now what will happen to his second ACP in 2012? Will he get 3 percent increase in Bacic only, or increase of BASIC by 3 % of the sum of Basic plus Grade pay(5400)? I do not see any reason for increasing GP to 6600 (because that would amount to third ACP in so far as Grade Pay is concerned.

Friends may not but be aware of the basic fact that the reaching 7500 through ACP Route would be different from going over to the scale 7500 through normal promotion.
(Page 7 of Swamy's Handbook 2008 refers.) The first condition of the benefits under the schme reads that the financial upgradation is granted purely on personal basisand it does not amount to regular promotion.

Coming to the answer on the first point (of course i do not know the text of the query), GOI has made it clear that the GP 5400 shall be granted to those who have completed 4 year Regular service in the Grade (not in the Scale).
What I want to request our association is to demand removal of the condition of fixing regular service altogether and we should be given 5400 Grade Pay from 1.1.2006 all functional superintendents as on 1.1.2006.

manu
18-11-2008, 03:22 PM
Badrijee, I have read your postings. It appears that you are frustrated and confused like others. you are thinking coming ACP scheme. But unable to read the present one which is in force till date. when DOPT will implement new ACP scheme, they will take all pro-&- co. Be in present and read simple and straight like an executive in revenue not like a ministrial staff:confused:.

stabdi
18-11-2008, 05:37 PM
As per page 32 of 6cpc.pdf where definition of all terms are given in 6cpc point 3(6) "grade pay" is the fixed amount corresponding to the pre-revised scale/posts.

So definitely it is eligible to all persons who were in payscale of 7500-250-12000 and have completed 4 years regular service as on 1.1.2006.

coolgoose2
18-11-2008, 06:38 PM
Hi

I think we cant impose what we want into what we have.. Pl see the first para of the RTI reply..the word used is PROMOTION..which makes it very clear.. FOUR YEAR PERIOD IS COUNTED FROM THE DATE OF PROMOTION IN THE GRADE...(EVERYBODY GET PROMOTED INTO A POST, NOT TO A SCALE)


regards
:):):)

Mr. Manu..While I believe about healthy discussion, there is no need to call anybody names in this forum.. let us not degrade the discussion forum into what is happening in the shoutbox

coolgoose2
25-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Hi all

Despite the clarification issued by the implementation cell by way of RTI reply, "honourable men" of our Department refuse to grant 5400 GP to supdts who have completed four years as on 01-01-2006. Some have reportedly even send letters to Board asking why this should be given. Except some Directorates, no major commissionerates are willing to implement this decision of SPC. Can we take a poll on this issue. To my knowledge the following formations have implemented this decision.

1.NACEN,
2.DGSafeguards,
3.DGSystems.

Can anybody add to this list

regards

:):):)

ps: We collectively need to take this as a WAR and fight, else we will be trampled again, like in 1996 on the issue of parity with CBI.

badri mannargudi
26-11-2008, 09:37 PM
Badrijee, I have read your postings. It appears that you are frustrated and confused like others. you are thinking coming ACP scheme. But unable to read the present one which is in force till date. when DOPT will implement new ACP scheme, they will take all pro-&- co. Be in present and read simple and straight like an executive in revenue not like a ministrial staff:confused:.

Dear friends,
I am confused in the limited sense that I do not understand what Shree Manujee wants to convey.
Point #1. I do not repeat not recall a single instance where I have sent contradictory signals on any issue so that I can be charged with this of accusation. I am afraid, Shree manujee owes an explanation to me.
As CG2jee, said, there is no place for personal bickerings in this lovely forum. The forum is a boon and one should not do anything to undermine the importance of the forum.
That I am only living in the present and not in the future is explicit from the fact that i am not saying that all 7500 scale employees after 4 year will get 5400 Grade Pay. Let the Inspectors in 7500 pre rev scale(after 1.1.2006)get 4800. Shree Manujee and Shree may work hard for enabling the Inspectors who got their ACP after 1.1.2006 get 5400 Grade Pay after 4 years. When you expect Grade Pay of 5400 for inspector after 4 years from the date of entering the pre rev scale of 7500, it may be your duty to work for those lesser mortals (who got their 1st ACP only after 1.1.2006.) get 4800 after ACP.
It does not make any sense to me when one says that "either Inspectors or Superintedents who have completed 4 years in grade-S-14 ( Scale 7500-12500) will be fixed in grade pay 5400" and that It is claified by the reply (to RTI Queries).
I leave it to the readers to decide the question: "who confuses whom?".
With regards,
Badri.

coolgoose2
01-12-2008, 08:45 AM
Hi all

Finally our 'esteemed' Board has woken from the slumber and issued a clarification, which poses more questions than answers. As often said, " the taste of the pudding is in the eating"; the said clarification might have reached all Chief Commissioners and cadre controlling Commissioners of Directorates. So, my dear friends, cross your fingers and wait for the fireworks to begin.....

regards

:):):)

balajeeva97
01-12-2008, 12:23 PM
Mr coolgoose2, could you pl post the clarification given by the Board, here in this blog or else you may send to my email [email protected]
Thank you.

Balaji.T

badri mannargudi
01-12-2008, 04:43 PM
Mr coolgoose2, could you pl post the clarification given by the Board, here in this blog or else you may send to my email [email protected]
Thank you.

Balaji.T

I am sending copy to your e mail address.
with Regards,
Badri

badri mannargudi
01-12-2008, 05:21 PM
Dear friends,
On first reading I wanted to congratulate Shri Jain and Shri Manujee for their views appeared to have been echoed in the letter dated 21.11.2008 by the Board.
But, the letter starts with the question of granting 5400 GP to Superintendents/Appraisers. This shows that Inspectors who have completed 4 years service in pre rev scale of 7500 have been left out. In this limited sense, I feel my stand remains untoppled by the Board's clarification.
At the best case, it has to be held that the service rendered by the Supts/Appraisers in the lower cadre (after getting ACP) may be taken into consideration.

Board has not stated any thing on the Inspectors who got the pre rev scale of 7500 on or after 1.1.2006., for there was no scale on 1.1.2006, by virtue of New pay scales have been fixed with effect from 1.1.2006.

Thirdly, the CBEC granted the pre rev scale to all Supts and eligible Insprs(on account of ACP benefits) only prospectively with effect from 25.04.2004. Does it mean, the four years regulation should be reckoned only from 25.04.2004. All those who became functional Superintendents/Appraisers prior to 25.04.2004 would be placed in GP of 5400 only from 35.4.2008. This goes against the Implementation Cell's Reply to RTI Queries (I hope I need not explain this) which specifically and unambiguously states that all those who have completed 4 year regular service after promotion to the Grade as on 1.1.2006 would be granted Grade Pay of 5400.
CG2jee is right in the sense that the Clarfication by CBEC leads to more questions than answers.
With regards,
Badri

balajeeva97
01-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Thank you.
With regards,
Balaji.T

manu
02-12-2008, 07:52 AM
:) Some of our learned colleague are still confused. I have listened that some of our extremly learned colleagues are refusing the salary of Nov with grade pay 5400.They are approaching to Ministry of expenditure (Implementation cell) for issuing a pay fixation order in their name. :confused:

nsdev007
06-12-2008, 11:26 AM
a very simple issue is being blown out of proportions by the power centres in feild formation. As a person involved in drafting the representation to Commitee of Secy; i would say that getting order of NFSG from CoS was much easier than getting it actually implemented in Commte's.

Nobody wants Group B; Group A are Brahmins and Group D Kshatriyas. Group B is unwanted.

DoPT has abundantly clarified on NFSG in OM issued in 1992. Now senior offficers are worried that by granting 5400 grade to Supdt/ITO; their share of TA will have to be parted. Honestly, how much tour does a Supdt/ITO get in a year? And how many places are indeed connected by air?

I also reiterate that NFSG is for a post and not for a scale.

I call upon the federations for Inspectors to implement 4600 GP first; then get Supdt upgraded to 5400 by virtue of historic parity with Cheif Enforcement Officer and then clamour for 4800 GP for Inspectors.

Asking for 4800 was the reason why it was turned down by DoE.When there is a direct provision in pay rules for upgradation to 4600; it would have been much easier to implement.

Small steps are easier to climb, with each step we are above the starting point. Giant leap like Boobka is fine, how many boobkas do we have?

Any way I along with Coolgoose are using RTI to fight it out. Any progress shall be posted in this forum

badri mannargudi
07-12-2008, 09:00 AM
Dear friends,
I concur Shri with NSDEV on his views. The need of the hour that the Federation of Inspectors should strive hard for achieving the pre rev scale of 7450 (upgradation of 6500) for the purpose of fixation of Pay under the CCS(RP)Rules 2008, so that they get 4600 instead of 4200. And the Superintendents' Federation should fight for achieving 5400 GP straight away on promotion (the condiotion of 4 year Regular service should be deleted).

I appeal to our learned friend to avoid making references to Caste/creed. After all, we are only making our views known to our brothern. The author's lamentation that Group B is "unwanted" is explicit even without such reference to caste. This is only an Appeal.
With Regards,
Badri

jitendraacr
07-12-2008, 10:14 PM
Dear friends

The upgradation of Rs.6500 scale to Rs.7450 scale was given in the Notification itself. For this, Deptt. concerned have to approach for MoF approval. It might have not any problem.Is it denied by the Mof then on what grounds. It is appropriate case for upgradation. If it can not be done then what is the meaning of mentioning it into Notification.

badri mannargudi
07-12-2008, 10:30 PM
Dear friends,
I must thank Jjee for showing interest on the subject.
In so far as our Department is concerned, there is a feeder cadre (Tax Assistant - from Erstwhile UDC/Data Entry Operator/Stenographer) (formerly in Pre Rev scale of 5500 who are also placed in 4200 GP. Inspectors are also currently placed there. Based on this criterion alone the Inspectors Cadre has to be upgraded to 7450 Pre Rev scale for the purpose of fixation of pay under the current Pay Rules.
But unfortunately, it is learnt, the Expenditure Dept (Implementation Cell) had returned the File to CBEC with some queries. As of 0112.2008, the queries remained tobe addressed to.
In my opinion, all that was required for the department(CBEC) was to submit to the Implementation Cell that the Feeder Cadre would stay and therefore the upgradation is imminent.
Let us hope, Inspectors get their due.(GP of 4600).
With regards,
Badri

nsdev007
13-12-2008, 09:08 AM
dear badri

if my reference of caste and creed in the post has offended any body, i apologise for the same.

to my understanding, the file relating to pay upgradation of Inspectors was returned because the board had recommended 7500 scale, which incidentally is pay of promotion post. If 7450 was proposed as laid down in proviso to pay rules nothing would have prevented the approval. In any case I have sent an RTI on upgradation matter. reply will be posted as and when received.

manu
03-01-2009, 07:14 PM
:cool:The Superintedents and Inspectors of 92 batch got Grade pay 5400 after calculating 4 years from date of ACP with salary of December 2008 in a number of commissionerates like, Ranchi, Jamshedpur, Patna, Patna(Customs preventive) and more after Board Clarification.:)

manu
10-01-2009, 10:53 AM
:)I am an inspector of Central Excise of 1992 batch.
My pay has been fixed in the grade pay Rs.5400/- w.e.f. 11.07.2008 after completing four years in grade pay Rs.4800/- as per the Revised pay Rules & Boards clarification. According to revised pay fixation my pay has been fixed as follow-

Pay as on 10.07.2008 – Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.4800
(After completing 4 years in grade pay 4800 on 11.07.2008)
Pay as on 11.07.2008- Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.5400

This appears improper in light of Rule 13 of Central Civil Services (Revised Pay) Rules, 2008, which stipulate that in the case of promotion from one grade pay to another in the revised pay structure on or after 01/01/06, the fixation will be done as follows:-
(i) One increment equal to 3% of the sum of the pay in the pay band and the existing grade pay will be computed & rounded off to the next multiple of 10.This will be added to existing pay in the existing pay band. The grade pay corresponding to the promotion post will thereafter be granted in addition to this pay in the pay band………………...”.

Therefore my pay should be fixed as follows-

Pay as on 10.07.2008 – Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.4800
(After completing 4 years in grade pay 4800 on 11.07.2008)
After adding 3% of (Basic Rs 16720-+Rs.4800) i.e. Rs.650/- It will be
Pay as on 11.07.2008- Basic Rs.17370/- + Grade pay Rs.5400

Your views and comments.:confused:

jitendraacr
10-01-2009, 08:11 PM
Dear friend
Your contention in this issue is not correct in my view. Grant of Rs.5400/- grade pay after four years of service in Rs.4800/- grade pay can not be termed as promotion from one grade pay to another, it is simply extention of benefit of grade pay of Rs.5400/-. If you will promoted to Rs5400/- grade pay corresponding to the prerevised scale of Rs.8000-13500/-, you will get the benefit of pay fixation in grade pay of Rs.5400/- as explained by you. It is true that u will get all the benefits related to gradepay of Rs.5400/-. It does not violates any rules and is correct. I would like to request Shri Badriji, being a senior officer of your department, to comment on this issue in a better way so that the querist may be satisfied.
Jitendra

manu
11-01-2009, 09:41 AM
Dear friend
Your contention in this issue is not correct in my view. Grant of Rs.5400/- grade pay after four years of service in Rs.4800/- grade pay can not be termed as promotion from one grade pay to another, it is simply extention of benefit of grade pay of Rs.5400/-. If you will promoted to Rs5400/- grade pay corresponding to the prerevised scale of Rs.8000-13500/-, you will get the benefit of pay fixation in grade pay of Rs.5400/- as explained by you. It is true that u will get all the benefits related to gradepay of Rs.5400/-. It does not violates any rules and is correct. I would like to request Shri Badriji, being a senior officer of your department, to comment on this issue in a better way so that the querist may be satisfied.
Jitendra
Dear friend
our present Rule regarding fixation i.e. Rule 13 does not differentiat the promotion from one garde pay to another on the basis what ever means it gained either it is on the basis of Actual promotion or ACP or after completing qualifying period of service (so called " Extention of benefit"). The reasons what so ever if there is promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay on or after 01.01.2006, the fixation will be done as per Rule 13.

agisrani
11-01-2009, 01:15 PM
I fully agreed with the view of manu.As per rule 13 whenever there is change of grade pay than one increment of 3% should be given.No where it has been mentioned that if grade pay has been changed due to other reason than promotion, in such case no increment should be given.Change of grade pay itself is a promotion as per rule 13.In some commissionerate AO agreed with this view however they are not giving because no other commissionerate has given such effect.

badri mannargudi
11-01-2009, 05:00 PM
:)I am an inspector of Central Excise of 1992 batch.
My pay has been fixed in the grade pay Rs.5400/- w.e.f. 11.07.2008 after completing four years in grade pay Rs.4800/- as per the Revised pay Rules & Boards clarification. According to revised pay fixation my pay has been fixed as follow-

Pay as on 10.07.2008 – Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.4800
(After completing 4 years in grade pay 4800 on 11.07.2008)
Pay as on 11.07.2008- Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.5400

This appears improper in light of Rule 13 of Central Civil Services (Revised Pay) Rules, 2008, which stipulate that in the case of promotion from one grade pay to another in the revised pay structure on or after 01/01/06, the fixation will be done as follows:-
(i) One increment equal to 3% of the sum of the pay in the pay band and the existing grade pay will be computed & rounded off to the next multiple of 10.This will be added to existing pay in the existing pay band. The grade pay corresponding to the promotion post will thereafter be granted in addition to this pay in the pay band………………...”.

Therefore my pay should be fixed as follows-

Pay as on 10.07.2008 – Basic Rs.16720 + Grade pay Rs.4800
(After completing 4 years in grade pay 4800 on 11.07.2008)
After adding 3% of (Basic Rs 16720-+Rs.4800) i.e. Rs.650/- It will be
Pay as on 11.07.2008- Basic Rs.17370/- + Grade pay Rs.5400

Your views and comments.:confused:

Dear friends!
At the outset I am sorry to note that the querist has not yet got his functional promotion. The absence of All India seniority for promotion to Supt., from Inspectors Cadre has taken a heavy toll in a few states like TamilNadu, Maharashtra. I wish our friend (querist) get his well deserving promotion sooner than later.
Coming to the doubt raised by the querist, my learned friend Jjee is right inthe sense that the raising of GP involved herein has nothing to do with promotion.
No upgradation (of scale of 7500 to 8000 after 4 years ) is involved. If one goes by the Recommendation and Resolution (page # 31 of the Bilingual Gazette dated 29.08.2008 refers), it would be seen that what is envisaged is a mere granting of Grade Pay of 5400 after 4 year service as Superintendents/Incometax Officer. Hence it is crystal clear that the Grade Pay upliftment (with no increase in Basic or Basic plus GP) is envisaged only for those officers and not those in the pre rev scale of 7500. This is ofcourse my personal interpretation/ understanding which is based on one Clarification (in the form of Reply to a Query under RTI ACT) given by Implementation Cell of the Expenditure Department.
To conclude, in my view, the increase in GP of 4800 to GP of 5400 in the case of our Querist Inspector in itself is endangered by the possibility of Recovery in view of the fact that such Granting of NFGP is available only to the Superintendents/Incometax Officers who are serving in the grade for 4 years. ( I belong to 1992 batch, promoted to Supt cadre in 2007 Sept and as such I should become eiligible for GP of 5400 only in Sept 2011). Going by CBEC's clarification, in Surat I commissionerates, my collegues have been granted GP of 5400 last month. Arrears shall be reckoned from April 2008.
I shall be granted GP of 5400 in January 2009. But I shall not be surprised if recovery is ordered for in future.
As an aside, even those Supts who have completed 4 years Regular service on or before 01.01.2006, have been granted GP of 5400 only from April 2008. (This is wrong and they should have been granted GP of 5400 if we go by the Reply by the Implementation cell to RTI Query, as mentioned herein above)
With Regards,
Badri

badri mannargudi
11-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Dear friend
our present Rule regarding fixation i.e. Rule 13 does not differentiat the promotion from one garde pay to another on the basis what ever means it gained either it is on the basis of Actual promotion or ACP or after completing qualifying period of service (so called " Extention of benefit"). The reasons what so ever if there is promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay on or after 01.01.2006, the fixation will be done as per Rule 13.
Dear Manujee,
The upgradation of Grade pay of Superintendents/Incometax Officers/Postal Department, as envisaged in Resolution/Pay Rules 2008 are department specific and it has nothing to do with Rule 13 of CCS (RP)2008. Therefore this upgradation in GP (alone) does not amount to Promotion/ACP. Therefore the question of granting 3% increase of (Basic + GP) may not arise.
With regards,
Badri

manu
11-01-2009, 07:56 PM
Dear Manujee,
The upgradation of Grade pay of Superintendents/Incometax Officers/Postal Department, as envisaged in Resolution/Pay Rules 2008 are department specific and it has nothing to do with Rule 13 of CCS (RP)2008. Therefore this upgradation in GP (alone) does not amount to Promotion/ACP. Therefore the question of granting 3% increase of (Basic + GP) may not arise.
With regards,
Badri
Dear friend
I think it is mind set due to stereotype thinking by mass. you have not quoted any provisions in support of your idea as why not it govern by Rule 13. Ruel 13 is applicable for all employee of Central Govt where promotion has been done from one grade pay to another. Since it is a case of income tax/central excise and postal department, hence it is Department specific and Rule 13 will not be applicable is illogical.
When Rule 13 is applicale to all employee of Central Govt. for fixation of pay when they promoted to one grade pay to another grade pay, without any condition. we, the empolyee ourselves putting condition and even stating it not a case of promotion from one grade pay to another are worrymarts.

coolgoose2
12-01-2009, 08:38 AM
Hi Manuji,

I think you are correct. In Cochin Special Economic Zone, the Supdts of Customs were given fixation in the new grade pay with effect from 21-04-2008 by giving one increment @3%. Ofcourse, then there was no increment in July 2008. Reason being given is next increment cannot be given within six months of earlier one.

regards

:):):)

badri mannargudi
13-01-2009, 12:06 AM
Hi Manuji,

I think you are correct. In Cochin Special Economic Zone, the Supdts of Customs were given fixation in the new grade pay with effect from 21-04-2008 by giving one increment @3%. Ofcourse, then there was no increment in July 2008. Reason being given is next increment cannot be given within six months of earlier one.

regards

:):):)
Dear CG2jee,
Let me reserve my comment on the wisdom of granting 3% increment on 21.04.2008.( I promise to dwel on the subject sooner than later).
For the time being, you may kindly answer the pointed question as to whether Inspectors with ACP (a after 4 year service in pre rev scale of 7500) are entitled to GP of 5400.
I wonder what would happen if the Superintendents in SEZ cochin put in an Application seeking deferring the upgradation with effect from 01.07.2008, instead of 21.04.2008. This way, those officers would avoid losing one increment.
Pl ask them to act now.
(I reiterate my promise to come back with comments on the wisdom of granting 3% increment at the time of upgradation of Grade pay of 5400 as NFGP)
With Regards,
Badri

coolgoose2
13-01-2009, 06:54 AM
I wonder what would happen if the Superintendents in SEZ cochin put in an Application seeking deferring the upgradation with effect from 01.07.2008, instead of 21.04.2008. This way, those officers would avoid losing one increment.
Pl ask them to act now.


Badriji,

Now the mood in the office is not right for any effective discussion on the subject. The AOs are so disappointed that they are now taking every step not to implement this. Take the case of officers of Central Excise, Trivandrum who have not received any indication that GP5400 is going to be implemented to them. Heard yesterday that the PAO has gone to Chennai to "consult" and "verify" the procedure followed there.

Regarding your suggestion of postponing the implementation to 01-07-2008, there is a catch: Many officers have postponed the grant of 7500 scale in 2004 to their date of increment so as to receive higher pay. However, as fate would have it, these officers are now receiving the GP 5400 AFTER many of their juniors on account of insistence on the part of the Dept that period of working the Scale of 7500 only would count for grant of 5400.

Well, I am eagerly awaiting the reply for my RTI applications on the subject from Ministry. Will post details as soon as I receive it

regards

:):):)

manu
13-01-2009, 08:47 AM
Hi Manuji,

I think you are correct. In Cochin Special Economic Zone, the Supdts of Customs were given fixation in the new grade pay with effect from 21-04-2008 by giving one increment @3%. Ofcourse, then there was no increment in July 2008. Reason being given is next increment cannot be given within six months of earlier one.

regards

:):):)

Dear friend
How do u conclude that there will not be any annual increament for next 6 months. I have got my annual increament on 1.7.2008 as usual. And next annual increament on 1..7.2009. Why are you confused yar!

jitendraacr
13-01-2009, 11:12 AM
Friends
It seems that there are several disputes among the employees of your department itself and I am sure nothing could be achieved by this way. Differences may be there but use of aggresive language is not the solution. We are not any authority to provide solution. What we discussed in this forum are our views only which are based on individual interpretation of rules and experience in administration. It is definitely expected from all members to keep COOL while discussing the matter though it is not written any where. The words used for Shri Badriji may not be acceptable by most of us. This is my view and I am sure some may not agree on it. I wish GOOD LUCK for all those.
with regards
Jitendra

narayanan
13-01-2009, 10:59 PM
Friends,

As per the existing rules:

1. Any upgradation from GP4800 to GP5400 under ACP scheme (not a promotion) shall inter-lia include an increment.

2. The upgradation from GP4800 to GP 5400 under 4-year scheme is not a promotion and not under ACP scheme. Therefore, no increment at present.

The anomaly is:

When an Inspector get upgradation under ACP with increment, Superintendent won't get increment on his upgradation.

It is a matter to be brought before the anomaly committee.

With regards,
Narayanan.

manu
14-01-2009, 09:17 AM
:)Dear all friends
Our ADC(P&V) & CAO convinced with my piont of view, and now agree to refix our pay as per Rule 13 within a fortnight( from January '09 salary) as it is done in SEZ. cochin.
After its re-fixation, I 'll post it here.

badri mannargudi
15-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Dear friend
How do u conclude that there will not be any annual increament for next 6 months. I have got my annual increament on 1.7.2008 as usual. And next annual increament on 1..7.2009. Why are you confused yar!


:)Dear all friends
Our ADC(P&V) & CAO convinced with my piont of view, and now agree to refix our pay as per Rule 13 within a fortnight( from January '09 salary) as it is done in SEZ. cochin.
After its re-fixation, I 'll post it here.

My dear friends,
The next logical step in the argument is that at the stage when ACP (Second one for Direct Recruit Inspectors) becomes due, the officer gets an increment and next grade pay of 6600.
If one argues that the Granting of higher Grade Pay of 5400 , should mean increase in Basic Pay in the Pay Band, even when there is no indication thereof in the CPC Recommendations/Resolution/Pay Rules (and that too, without leading to any adverse effect in the date of next Annual lncrement ),I have nothing to say and leave it to all learned friends to judge the validity such argument.
But one may do well to note that our learned friend's (Shree Manujee's)argument/view implies that GP of 5400 granted with effect from 21.4.2008 as NFGP amopunts to promotion thereby resulting in incremental increase in Basic pay and at the same time, the Annual Increment on 01.07.2008 would remain in tact.
With regards,
Badri

manu
15-01-2009, 06:58 PM
My dear friends,
The next logical step in the argument is that at the stage when ACP (Second one for Direct Recruit Inspectors) becomes due, the officer gets an increment and next grade pay of 6600.
If one argues that the Granting of higher Grade Pay of 5400 , should mean increase in Basic Pay in the Pay Band, even when there is no indication thereof in the CPC Recommendations/Resolution/Pay Rules (and that too, without leading to any adverse effect in the date of next Annual lncrement ),I have nothing to say and leave it to all learned friends to judge the validity such argument.
But one may do well to note that our learned friend's (Shree Manujee's)argument/view implies that GP of 5400 granted with effect from 21.4.2008 as NFGP amopunts to promotion thereby resulting in incremental increase in Basic pay and at the same time, the Annual Increment on 01.07.2008 would remain in tact.
With regards,
Badri

Dear friend
Please read Rule 13 for fixation of pay w.e.f.1.1.06. It simply tells that whenever there is promotion from one garde pay to another grade pay The pay will be fix as follow..................3% increase. It means if there is no promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay, the pay will not be fix as per Rule 13. In 2nd ACP an Inspector(Direct) get the Pay of A.C.( Next post of hieraracy, see present ACP rule ). Now what is the grade pay of A.C. of central Excise i.e. Rs. 5400. Certainly there will not be any fixation as per Rule 13 at that time.;)
There is a deviation from earlier Rules for fixation of pay. Please accept it as positive, Since it give us ( Revenue employee) the grade pay 5400 at the service length of 16 (12+4) year instead of 24 or 20 year. Now our grade pay will change at 12 (proposed10), 16(proposed14), , and at 30(proposed) . It is also logical we need more money at the age of 16 or 14 not at 24.

badri mannargudi
15-01-2009, 10:33 PM
My dear friends,
The next logical step in the argument is that at the stage when ACP (Second one for Direct Recruit Inspectors) becomes due, the officer gets an increment and next grade pay of 6600.
If one argues that the Granting of higher Grade Pay of 5400 , should mean increase in Basic Pay in the Pay Band, even when there is no indication thereof in the CPC Recommendations/Resolution/Pay Rules (and that too, without leading to any adverse effect in the date of next Annual lncrement ),I have nothing to say and leave it to all learned friends to judge the validity such argument.
But one may do well to note that our learned friend's (Shree Manujee's)argument/view implies that GP of 5400 granted with effect from 21.4.2008 as NFGP amopunts to promotion thereby resulting in incremental increase in Basic pay and at the same time, the Annual Increment on 01.07.2008 would remain in tact.
With regards,
Badri


Dear friend
Please read Rule 13 for fixation of pay w.e.f.1.1.06. It simply tells that whenever there is promotion from one garde pay to another grade pay The pay will be fix as follow..................3% increase. It means if there is no promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay, the pay will not be fix as per Rule 13. In 2nd ACP an Inspector(Direct) get the Pay of A.C.( Next post of hieraracy, see present ACP rule ). Now what is the grade pay of A.C. of central Excise i.e. Rs. 5400. Certainly there will not be any fixation as per Rule 13 at that time.;) (emphasis suppled)
There is a deviation from earlier Rules for fixation of pay. Please accept it as positive, Since it give us ( Revenue employee) the grade pay 5400 at the service length of 16 (12+4) year instead of 24 or 20 year. Now our grade pay will change at 12 (proposed10), 16(proposed14), , and at 30(proposed) . It is also logical we need more money at the age of 16 or 14 not at 24.

Dear friends!
I request my learned collegue to explain the following aspects so that we can understand the things;-
The wording in bold types may be referred to. Does the act on the part of Govt granting NFGP of 5400 to such Inspector (forget Superintendents)amount to granting promotion to the such individual? If so, please tell me how the inspectors who had not got their first ACP (at the time of fixation of pay under the Revised Rules 2008) as of 1.1.2006 are going to be treated?
The reply may kindly be given in the following two cases

Case I: If the pay scale is not upgraded to 7450 as on 1.1.2006 and
remains at 6500 - with the result the GP remains at 4200.(will it also
become 4800 on 1st ACP and four years later, will it become 5400?)
Case II: If the pay scale is upgraded to 7450 as on 1.1.2006 and
with the result the GP gets fixed at 4600.
(will it also become 4800 on 1st ACP and four years later, will it
become 5400?)
How many deviations that have not been explicitely provided for are
going to be presented in the instant threat?
Thinking positive may not necessarily mean the Rules are to
interpreted the way we like them to be in order to suit our
requirement).
one last question: How is it that ACP is envisaged for Revenue Employees (Income tax and C.Ex and Cus) alone, for 10 years and 16 years and 30 years, when the Resolution talks of ACP after 10, 20 and 30 yrs of service?
With regards,
Badri

manu
16-01-2009, 08:55 AM
Dear friends!
I request my learned collegue to explain the following aspects so that we can understand the things;-
The wording in bold types may be referred to. Does the act on the part of Govt granting NFGP of 5400 to such Inspector (forget Superintendents)amount to granting promotion to the such individual? If so, please tell me how the inspectors who had not got their first ACP (at the time of fixation of pay under the Revised Rules 2008) as of 1.1.2006 are going to be treated?
The reply may kindly be given in the following two cases

Case I: If the pay scale is not upgraded to 7450 as on 1.1.2006 and
remains at 6500 - with the result the GP remains at 4200.(will it also
become 4800 on 1st ACP and four years later, will it become 5400?)
Case II: If the pay scale is upgraded to 7450 as on 1.1.2006 and
with the result the GP gets fixed at 4600.
(will it also become 4800 on 1st ACP and four years later, will it
become 5400?)
How many deviations that have not been explicitely provided for are
going to be presented in the instant threat?
Thinking positive may not necessarily mean the Rules are to
interpreted the way we like them to be in order to suit our
requirement).
one last question: How is it that ACP is envisaged for Revenue Employees (Income tax and C.Ex and Cus) alone, for 10 years and 16 years and 30 years, when the Resolution talks of ACP after 10, 20 and 30 yrs of service?
With regards,
Badri

Dear friend, Be Relax
Point to point
Granting of ACP to inspectors amounts to Promotion?
Yes, It is i.e. upgradation under ACP shall be treated on par with regular promotion in so far as pay-fixation is concerned. See present ACP Rules.
Like wise, now promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay is treated to promotion for purpose of Rule13. (Read Rule 13 again) (in so far as pay-fixation is concerned)
What an inspector get on 1st ACP, the pay (Now grade pay) of next post of hierarchy, in our case the pay (Now grade pay) of Superintendent. What is pay of superintendent? It is 4800 and 5400 (After 4 years)
Now it is immaterial what is the pay of an Inspector either it is 4200 or 4600, he get 4800 on his first ACP.
Dear friend, 10, 20, 30 years are recommendation, The Govt has not notified it till now. :)

badri mannargudi
16-01-2009, 09:28 AM
Dear friend, Be Relax
Point to point
Granting of ACP to inspectors amounts to Promotion?
Yes, It is i.e. upgradation under ACP shall be treated on par with regular promotion in so far as pay-fixation is concerned. See present ACP Rules.
Like wise, now promotion from one grade pay to another grade pay is treated to promotion for purpose of Rule13. (Read Rule 13 again) (in so far as pay-fixation is concerned)
What an inspector get on 1st ACP, the pay (Now grade pay) of next post of hierarchy, in our case the pay (Now grade pay) of Superintendent. What is pay of superintendent? It is 4800 and 5400 (After 4 years)
Now it is immaterial what is the pay of an Inspector either it is 4200 or 4600, he get 4800 on his first ACP.
Dear friend, 10, 20, 30 years are recommendation, The Govt has not notified it till now. :)
Dear Manujee,
With due respect to your wisdom, kindly notice the contradiction between the first sentence and the last sentence in yourreview posted a few minutes ago...
The first one says that upgradation shall be treated at par with promotion and the my attention has been drawn to New ACP Rule. On the other hand your last sentence says that the Government has not notified (ACP issue).

Secondly, it appears you have referred to DACP ( for Doctors). You may kindly note that in those cases, the designation changes on ACP. It is field specific. You may refer to the relevant portions of CPC Recommendations. you may kindly read para 3.6.7 given at page 193 to understand the difference between ACP and DACP.

Thirdly, who told ACP issue stays at Recommendation stage. For your kind information, CPC recommendation was only for continuance of then existing scheme. Through Resolution (Through OM notified on 29.08.2008) while accepting the Recommendations, modiified them by stating that it will be after 10 yrs, 20 yrs and 30 yrs of service.

In one of your earlier posts you had asked me to quote the relevant Rule. Now, when I ask you about ACP Grade pay to Inspectors who are at GP of 4200 [if the upgradation to pre rev scale of 7450 is not accepted by the Expenditure department] you say that they will get 4800. Kindly show me the provision.
With warm regards,
Yours sincerely,
Badri

manu
16-01-2009, 08:14 PM
Dear Manujee,
With due respect to your wisdom, kindly notice the contradiction between the first sentence and the last sentence in yourreview posted a few minutes ago...
The first one says that upgradation shall be treated at par with promotion and the my attention has been drawn to New ACP Rule. On the other hand your last sentence says that the Government has not notified (ACP issue).

Secondly, it appears you have referred to DACP ( for Doctors). You may kindly note that in those cases, the designation changes on ACP. It is field specific. You may refer to the relevant portions of CPC Recommendations. you may kindly read para 3.6.7 given at page 193 to understand the difference between ACP and DACP.

Thirdly, who told ACP issue stays at Recommendation stage. For your kind information, CPC recommendation was only for continuance of then existing scheme. Through Resolution (Through OM notified on 29.08.2008) while accepting the Recommendations, modiified them by stating that it will be after 10 yrs, 20 yrs and 30 yrs of service.

In one of your earlier posts you had asked me to quote the relevant Rule. Now, when I ask you about ACP Grade pay to Inspectors who are at GP of 4200 [if the upgradation to pre rev scale of 7450 is not accepted by the Expenditure department] you say that they will get 4800. Kindly show me the provision.
With warm regards,
Yours sincerely,
Badri
Who drawn your attention to new ACP Rules? Which is not in existance. I told Present ACP rules.Where is new ACP Rules? Our present ACP rules are many years old, which is in existence. New Set of ACP Rules and palcing 10, 20,30 years in place of 12,24 in existing ACP Rules is different thing friend. Even GOvt has not placed 10,20,30 years in existing ACP Rules and you are thinking about Recomendation of pay commission for new ACP Rules based on 'Grade pay based' in place of present 'next hierarcy based'.
Do not bother yar, leave it on Govt, certainly if Govt will decide for new set of ACP Rules in future based on 'Next grade pay'. certainly they will revise the pay of inspector fron present 4200 to 4600 to sort out anamoly.
Even today, 10,20,30 years in present ACP is not notified yet. Stating it in resolution is not enough , it must be notified by adding in present Rules.
No need to think what happened with Doctors by DACP ( I have no idea)
Live in present, think simple, read plain, write short only to the point.

badri mannargudi
16-01-2009, 11:19 PM
Dear friends!
I request all in this Forum to read posts #51 to 57 which contain arguments raised by Shree Manujee on one side and myself on the other side.
I request each friend of this August Forum to draw a conclusion of his or her own as to "who of the two lives in present, who thinks simple, who reads plain, who writes short and who writes to the point".
With regards,
Badri

manu
17-01-2009, 08:12 AM
Dear friend
Adding of one increament in case of promotion from one scale to another scale or one post to another post is well accepted by our brain. Since it is decade old practice and all Govt. employees are well versed.
But when a third situation arise i.e. promotion of scale after completing qualifying period of service in a scale. Our brain is not catching it.
Dear friend, from 1.1.06 new fixation Rules has come into effect. It stipulate that If there is promotion of grade pay, the fixation will be done with one increament.
Certainly here is promotion of grade pay, then why not it be done under Rule 13. Is there any other option after 01.01.2006?

badri mannargudi
17-01-2009, 03:11 PM
Dear Manujee,
I do not understand why you do not appreciate the fact that neither the Recommendations, nor the Resolution nor the Pay Rules recognise granting of "deemed promotion" or "promotional pay", but instead, these three documents indicate/declare only granting of Higher Grade Pay, i.e 5400, how can we assume that increment in Pay is also envilsaged. Can we afford to read into something more than what is explicit? Pl tell me as to who makes a plain and simple reading.
To be fair to you, in my view, my dear friend, the Govt in general and our department in particular would be breaking its/their head(s) to resolve the problem of fixation of pay and Grade pay to those who are granted GP of 5400 as and when they (the officers )subsequently become eligible to be granted ACP.
With regards,
Badri

manu
18-01-2009, 10:06 AM
Dear Manujee,
I do not understand why you do not appreciate the fact that neither the Recommendations, nor the Resolution nor the Pay Rules recognise granting of "deemed promotion" or "promotional pay", but instead, these three documents indicate/declare only granting of Higher Grade Pay, i.e 5400, how can we assume that increment in Pay is also envilsaged. Can we afford to read into something more than what is explicit? Pl tell me as to who makes a plain and simple reading.
To be fair to you, in my view, my dear friend, the Govt in general and our department in particular would be breaking its/their head(s) to resolve the problem of fixation of pay and Grade pay to those who are granted GP of 5400 as and when they (the officers )subsequently become eligible to be granted ACP.
With regards,
Badri
Dear friend
The old words like "deemed promotion" or "promotional pay", must be deleted from our Hard disk (Brain) to install the new software in our Computer(Brain).
All the three documents declare (In your word) only granting of "Higher Grade Pay".
Learned friend, What is granting of higher grade pay? Why is it not a promotion from one grade pay to another Grade pay (as per Rule13 )? Govt.always grant, since we are servant. It is a grant so it will not cover under Rule 13 is illogical.
Rule 13 states only promotion from one Grade pay to another, either it by anyway like even "granting" it will be applicable.

narayanan
18-01-2009, 10:19 AM
Friends,

As per the existing rules:

1. Any upgradation from GP4800 to GP5400 under ACP scheme (not a promotion) shall inter-lia include an increment.

2. The upgradation from GP4800 to GP 5400 under 4-year scheme is not a promotion and not under ACP scheme. Therefore, no increment at present.

The anomaly is:

When an Inspector get upgradation under ACP with increment, Superintendent won't get increment on his upgradation.

It is a matter to be brought before the anomaly committee.

With regards,
Narayanan.



Dear friends,

Please refer to my earlier views quoted above. In the light of the discussions so far held, I got a doubt whether a Supdt who is at GP5400 ( under 'after 4 years' criteria) will be given any increment at the time of his promotion to Asst.Commr (in Group A) with GP5400. In my view, there is no provision in the revised rules to give such an increment. Then the circummstances forced me to conclude that the Supdt. (and other posts also) should be given increment as in the case of promotion to higher grade.

If there is no water available in the earth, we have to manufactur water using Hydrogen and Oxygen as inputs.

With regards,

Narayanan.

badri mannargudi
18-01-2009, 11:19 PM
Dear friends,

Please refer to my earlier views quoted above. In the light of the discussions so far held, I got a doubt whether a Supdt who is at GP5400 ( under 'after 4 years' criteria) will be given any increment at the time of his promotion to Asst.Commr (in Group A) with GP5400. In my view, there is no provision in the revised rules to give such an increment. Then the circummstances forced me to conclude that the Supdt. (and other posts also) should be given increment as in the case of promotion to higher grade.

If there is no water available in the earth, we have to manufactur water using Hydrogen and Oxygen as inputs.

With regards,

Narayanan.

Dear Narayananjee,
Precisely on the basis of the Rules and Regulations that are in vogue now, I have been arguing the way since the first ever review/post in the instant thread.
It is true that something needs to be done. But, coming to the example you have given, in the absence of precaution, there is every possibility of ending with the final product Hydrogen Peroxide (H two O two), instead of the desired final product [Two{ H two O two)}.(I am not able to write the chemical formula for want of provision in the Key Board)
We may strive hard for getting justice.
With regards,
Badri

manu
19-01-2009, 09:22 AM
Dear learned friend
Nothing is vague dear, All Rules and Regulations are clear.
What injustice Govt, has done? Pay commission had turned down demand for scale 8000 for Superintendents. It is Govt who accepted it with modification .i.e. after completing 4 years all Superintendents will draw 5400, the scale of Assistant Commissioner. Earlier a superintendent has to wait till 24 years of service to be in scale 8000. Now they will get it just in 16 (!4 proposed) years of service.
Now majority of Superintendents are drawing Grade pay 5400 i.e. Grade pay of A.C. It is injustice to them done by Govt?
Think again.

badri mannargudi
20-01-2009, 01:26 AM
Dear learned friend
Nothing is vague dear, All Rules and Regulations are clear.
What injustice Govt, has done? Pay commission had turned down demand for scale 8000 for Superintendents. It is Govt who accepted it with modification .i.e. after completing 4 years all Superintendents will draw 5400, the scale of Assistant Commissioner. Earlier a superintendent has to wait till 24 years of service to be in scale 8000. Now they will get it just in 16 (!4 proposed) years of service.
Now majority of Superintendents are drawing Grade pay 5400 i.e. Grade pay of A.C. It is injustice to them done by Govt?
Think again.

Dear Manujee,
Kindly appreciate the fact that the word 'vogue' mentioned in my last review in the instant thread has been read (by you, sir) as "vague".
I have not said anywhere that the Rules are vague.
With regards,
Badri

manu
20-01-2009, 08:20 AM
Dear friend
we should be to the point. The Superintendents "may strive hard for getting justice". Now question is, what injustice Govt. has done with them?
Now majority of the Superintendents are receiving Grade pay Rs.5400 with all the allowance attach with this Grade pay, which is also grade pay of Assistant Commissioner.
Re-think, Stating it as injustice done by Govt. is against normal wisdom.

narayanan
20-01-2009, 08:57 AM
Dear friends,

Let us re-think the views already had on the issue. For the purpose, we have find out the answer for the following questions:

The GP 5400 is a Grade Pay attached to the post of Superintendent and it does not have any connection or deemed parity with the Grade pay of Assistant Commissioner. It is also a fact that Superintendent can be promoted as Assistant Commissioner. In this back ground, how can a Superintendent who is promoted as AC will earn the benefit of NEXT GRADE PAY alongwith an INCREMENT (calculated @3% of the sum total of existing GP and Pay in PB)? When the incumbants of all other posts are eligible for both the benefits, is it not an injustice to the Superintendent?

With regards,

Narayanan

manu
21-01-2009, 09:02 AM
Dear friend
we must remember that a superintendent is now getting the Grade pay 5400 with all its allowance from 16 (Proposed 14) years of service. what was earlier position? they get it in 24 years of service. Why not it has connection or deemed parity with Assistant commissioner? As per New pay Rules, the grade pay is the sole criteria regarding status of an employee in Govt and now all allowance, eligibility for entitlement will govern by Grade pay. Are an Assistant Commissioner getting more pay or allowance?
Then why not it "has connection or deemed parioty"?
we are opposing the fixation of pay (increasing 3%) at the 16 years of service and demanding it be fixed in 24 years of service at the time of 2nd ACP or even at the time of actual promotion (May be in 32......or more years of service Or it may never come) is reasonless.
I doubt the wisdom of our friends.

badri mannargudi
23-01-2009, 02:48 PM
Dear friend
we should be to the point. The Superintendents "may strive hard for getting justice". Now question is, what injustice Govt. has done with them?
Now majority of the Superintendents are receiving Grade pay Rs.5400 with all the allowance attach with this Grade pay, which is also grade pay of Assistant Commissioner.
Re-think, Stating it as injustice done by Govt. is against normal wisdom.

My Dear Manujee,
It appears my view (as regards injustice relating to granting of GP of 5400) is mis read by you, my dear friend.
What I have meant by using the word for was " akin to the cases in some other departments where the Four year restriction is not prescribed and instead, they have been upgraded straightaway from pre rev scale of 7500 to pre rev scale of 8000, for the purpose of fixation of Pay under CCS9RP) 2008, in our department, too, similar upgradation should have been awarded without putting in a condition of 4 regular service in the pre rev scale of 7500. The term injustice was used in this limited sense.
I hope now the things are clear to you, dear friend.
With regards,
Badri

coolgoose2
13-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Badriji

You are correct. Our Great Board has done another U-turn from an ambiguous order. ACP Inspectors are not eligible for GP 5400 after four years in 7500 scale.

What about the service rendered by Supdts prior to 21-04-2006? Will it count for anything?

regards

:):):)

narayanan
14-02-2009, 10:01 AM
Dear friends,

I think Shri CG2 would have meant 21.4.2004 instead of 21.4.2006 to calculate the years of service.

I feel the Board has taken the correct stand with regard to eleigibility of GP5400 for ACP-ied Inspectors in the light of the CPC recommendations/ resolution/notifications. It is a fact that the decision is against the interest of the Inspectors but in view of the situation, it will not be a matter of right to claim GP5400.

In my view, GP 5400 (under 4 year condition) shall be granted only in the case of REGULAR SERVICE (functional) in the grade of Superintendent.

The stand, if any, taken by authorities to grant GP5400 w.e.f. 21.4.2008 (after 4 years from 21.4.2004) with the argument that Supdt scale 7500-12500 came into effect only from 21.4.2004 is not correct.

Regular service is to be counted in the post and not in the pay drawn. Moreover, the definition of Grade Pay in the Notification, inter-alia, includes its relation with old grades of the post.

With regards,

Narayanan.

nkjain
19-02-2009, 12:38 AM
The clarification issued by the Board suffers from serious infirmity. As per Para 11 of the ACP OM No.35034/1/97-Estt(D) dated 09.08.1999, any interpretation/clarification of doubt as to the scope and meaning of the provisions of the ACP Scheme shall be given by the Department of Personnel and Training (Establishment-D). Here, the matter relates to the fixation of pay of ACP Inspectors and relates to interpretation of existing ACP scheme as to whether the scale of pay provided by the notification dated 29.08.2008 of Deptt of Expenditure (for new pay scales) would be applicable in full to ACP Inspectors or not. In other words, whether GP of 5400 available to the Superintendent after 4 years would be available to ACP inspectors or not by virtue of provisions of existing ACP scheme. The matter can be clarified only by DOPT and not Deptt. of Expenditure as Deptt of Expenditure is not competent to furnish clarification on the issue related to ACP matters. Furthermore, the clarification has words like upgradation, regular service etc. which do not exist in the notification dated 29.08.2008 of Deptt of Expenditure and those can be termed as invented words often regarded as bad in law. It is also strange for Deptt of Expenditure to opine that four years service shall be counted after regular promotion as Superintendent as also from the receipt of 7500-12000 pay scale. This is going beyond the statute as both conditions cannot be imposed together when the notification simply say 'after four years'. If they take the help of Resolution for defining 'after four years', they should read it in full which says that all Group B officers will get it. It cannot be read it in parts for incorporating the words 'regular' etc.. Please read this with my earlier post on first page. If represented properly, ACP Inspectors will surely get 5400 GP, sooner or later.
Note- Please do not refer GP 5400 as nfsg or upgradation as many of the officers are doing. GP 5400 is the functional grade of the Superintendents after four years and no other functional grade of GP 5400 in PB 2 exists in the hierarchy so as to term it nfsg.

nsdev007
07-03-2009, 10:12 PM
dear friends

pls see clarifn from cbdt. it says 4 year service to be reckoned from date of promotion
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
MINISTRY OF FINANCE
CENTRAL BOARD OF DIRECT TAXES
DIRECTORATE OF INCOME TAX
(HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT)

Dated : March 06, 2009

F. No. HRD/CM/175/15/2008-09/324

Subject : Clarification on grant of Grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis to Income Tax Officers of Income Tax Department

I am directed to invite your attention to Government of India, Department of Expenditure resolution No. 1/1/2008-IC dated 29 August 2008 notifying acceptance of recommendations of 6th Central Pay Commission, wherein it was decided to grant Grade Pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis to Group B officers of Income Tax Department (i.e., Income Tax Officers) after 4 years of regular service in the grade pay of Rs. 4800 in PB-2. The relevant portion of Section II, Part C, First Schedule of the notification No. GSR 622(E) dated 29th August 2008 is reproduced below:-
Post

Present scale

Revised Pay Scale

Corresponding Pay Band Grade Pay



Pay Band

Grade Pay
Income Tax Officers

7500-12000

7500-12000
8000-13500
(after 4 years)

PB-2
PB-2

4800
5400

2. Clarifications have been sought by many field formations, individual officers as well as employees association (ITGOA) on how the period of 4 years is to be counted for this purpose, i.e., whether the period of 4 years of regular service is to be counted from the date of promotion in the grade of Income Tax Officer or from the date when the pay scale of Income Tax Officers was revised from Rs. 6500-10500 (pre-revised) to Rs. 7500-12000 (pre-revised), i.e., from 21st April 2004.

3. The issue has been examined in the Board, It is hereby clarified that all Income Tax Officers, who have completed 4 years or more of regular service in the grade of Income Tax Officers as on 1st January 2006 would be entitled to the grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis on 1st January 2006 irrespective of the fact that pay scale of Income Tax Officers stood revised to Rs. 7500-12000 from 21st April 2004. Further, after 1st January 2006, grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis would be granted to an Income Tax Officer on completion of 4 years of regular service in the grade of Income Tax Officer.

(Praveen Kishore)
Joint Director of Income Tax (HRD)
New Delhi

coolgoose2
07-03-2009, 10:20 PM
Wonderful news...

Now try to get it implemented in CBEC also... also take up the issue of hapless ACP Inspectors...

regards

:):):)

badri mannargudi
07-03-2009, 11:45 PM
Wonderful news...

Now try to get it implemented in CBEC also... also take up the issue of hapless ACP Inspectors...

regards

:):):)


dear friends

pls see clarifn from cbdt. it says 4 year service to be reckoned from date of promotion
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
MINISTRY OF FINANCE
CENTRAL BOARD OF DIRECT TAXES
DIRECTORATE OF INCOME TAX
(HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT)

Dated : March 06, 2009

F. No. HRD/CM/175/15/2008-09/324

Subject : Clarification on grant of Grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis to Income Tax Officers of Income Tax Department

I am directed to invite your attention to Government of India, Department of Expenditure resolution No. 1/1/2008-IC dated 29 August 2008 notifying acceptance of recommendations of 6th Central Pay Commission, wherein it was decided to grant Grade Pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis to Group B officers of Income Tax Department (i.e., Income Tax Officers) after 4 years of regular service in the grade pay of Rs. 4800 in PB-2. The relevant portion of Section II, Part C, First Schedule of the notification No. GSR 622(E) dated 29th August 2008 is reproduced below:-
Post

Present scale

Revised Pay Scale

Corresponding Pay Band Grade Pay



Pay Band

Grade Pay
Income Tax Officers

7500-12000

7500-12000
8000-13500
(after 4 years)

PB-2
PB-2

4800
5400

2. Clarifications have been sought by many field formations, individual officers as well as employees association (ITGOA) on how the period of 4 years is to be counted for this purpose, i.e., whether the period of 4 years of regular service is to be counted from the date of promotion in the grade of Income Tax Officer or from the date when the pay scale of Income Tax Officers was revised from Rs. 6500-10500 (pre-revised) to Rs. 7500-12000 (pre-revised), i.e., from 21st April 2004.

3. The issue has been examined in the Board, It is hereby clarified that all Income Tax Officers, who have completed 4 years or more of regular service in the grade of Income Tax Officers as on 1st January 2006 would be entitled to the grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis on 1st January 2006 irrespective of the fact that pay scale of Income Tax Officers stood revised to Rs. 7500-12000 from 21st April 2004. Further, after 1st January 2006, grade pay of Rs. 5400 in PB-2 on non-functional basis would be granted to an Income Tax Officer on completion of 4 years of regular service in the grade of Income Tax Officer.

(Praveen Kishore)
Joint Director of Income Tax (HRD)
New Delhi


Dear friends,
Yes, it is wonderful news to those Superintendents who have been in the FUNCTIONAL GRADE SINCE, SAY 01.01.2002, for , THEY NEED NOT WAIT TILL 21.04.2008 for getting GP of 5400. members of this August Forum may be aware of the fact that same view was held by me.

But, the problem is, the letter under study does not help any Superintendent who became a functional officer in the grade only, say in October 2008, even if he got ACP (while he was in the grade of Inspector) on or after 21.4.2004).
Let us hope we will get justice in due course.
With regards,
Badri.

coolgoose2
08-03-2009, 09:10 AM
Hi all

Here is the link to the letter issued by CBDT. Salute to the IT people.


http://incometaxindia.gov.in/archive/GP_of_5400_to_ITOs_06032009.pdf

regards

:):):)

narayanan
08-03-2009, 10:05 AM
Dear Badriji,

Please refer to your posting at S.No.75 above. The reality is that the Superintendents and Inspectors of Central Excise have to get help from the orders of CBDT to remove their anomalies.

In my view, there is no need of ACP scheme for Income Tax people since there exists timely promotions in that department. Therefore, no possibility of clarification on ACP scheme from CBDT.

With regards,

Narayanan

badri mannargudi
08-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Dear Badriji,

Please refer to your posting at S.No.75 above. The reality is that the Superintendents and Inspectors of Central Excise have to get help from the orders of CBDT to remove their anomalies.

In my view, there is no need of ACP scheme for Income Tax people since there exists timely promotions in that department. Therefore, no possibility of clarification on ACP scheme from CBDT.

With regards,

Narayanan

Dear Narayananjee,
May be those who are D.R Inspectors may not depend upon ACP, those who joined/joins as Tax Assistant, my be left high and dry if ACP does not exist for them. (My batchmates - UDCs of 1982 became Inspectors only in 2000/2001.
In light of this fact, I think your view may require reconsideration.
I agree with the view that ACP Inspectors and Supts with 4 year service as Inspectors with ACP should fight with unified hands.
With regards,
Badri

vijayshaus
09-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Badrijee

Your example is obviously wrong. My batch people in both Customs and IT have got their promotion atleast 5-6 years earlier than me. So you should compare like people. I am a DR inspector in Cex.

regards

Vijay

badri mannargudi
09-03-2009, 02:38 PM
Badrijee

Your example is obviously wrong. My batch people in both Customs and IT have got their promotion atleast 5-6 years earlier than me. So you should compare like people. I am a DR inspector in Cex.

regards

Vijay
Dear Vijayjee,
It appears my view has been quoted totally out of context.
It appears you have not read my view with Shri Narayananjee's view as regards the need or no need for ACP for Customs/Income Tax.
What I had/have in my mind, (as reflected in my view, as well) was /is that while DR Inspectors of Income Tax may not depend upon ACP, for they would get functional promotion within say 9 years, a DR UDC (now called Tax Assistant with the Grade pay of 4200) may depend upon ACP and Second ACP (rather 3rd ACP, so to say).
Under the circumstances, I do not thing my view expressed yesterday requires any modification/rectification.
With regards,
Badri

vnnkarthika
15-03-2009, 07:11 PM
It is again proved that there are "officers" below Group A in CBDT. Under CBEC there is none!!! All are errand boys/girls !!!!!! JAI HO IT/CBDT.
vnnkarthika.

ramamoorthyh
30-06-2009, 04:59 PM
Hi all

I had requested the information under RTI in respect of CBEC file from which the two letters of the board were issued. Even though my application was given in November 2008, only yesterday I had received the info from CBEC. I have preferred and first appeal and second appeal is pending with CIC for delay.

I am uploading the documents/file note sheets received from CBEC.

Make out what it means for yourself.

http://www.MegaShare.com/1162321

I have numbered the sheets (1) to (20)

regards

:):):)
ramamoorthy

ramamoorthyh
03-07-2009, 06:11 PM
Hi all

I have added a reply to this topic two days back, however the administrators seem to have deleted it. However I am adding it once again;

I have received, through RTI, copies of file notings of the CBEC file in the matter of Rs. 5400 Grade pay issue. Pl check the link below:

http://www.MegaShare.com/1170430

I have numbered the pages (1) to (20)

regards

:):):)