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DEVA
18-09-2008, 10:21 AM
:mad: As on 01.01.2006 : I m Auditor in the scale 4500-7000, my basic Rs. 4500/-

As on 22.12.2006: I m promoted after passing departmental examination as Section Officer(IA&AD) in the scale of 6500-10500 and my pay is fixed at Rs. 6500/-.i.e, minimum of pay scale.

Now as per 6th CPC the pay scale of SO merged with AAO & upgraded also in the pay scale of Rs. 7500-250-12000 with grade pay Rs. 4800/-

Also As per 6th CPC New Appointee/direct recuritee in the grade pay of
Rs. 4800 get Rs. 18150/-

But in my office for promotee they are fixing at Rs. 9300+4800=Rs.14100/-

Wheter this is jusitice as direct recruitee SO get Rs. 18150/- whereas promotee on same post will get Rs. 14100/-

g2008
18-09-2008, 12:00 PM
Mr. deva
that should be mostly correct, but, in your office, the direct recruit section officer whenever comes, your pay will be automatically stepped up from the date of that's new person

gconnectsna
18-09-2008, 02:00 PM
:mad: As on 01.01.2006 : I m Auditor in the scale 4500-7000, my basic Rs. 4500/-

As on 22.12.2006: I m promoted after passing departmental examination as Section Officer(IA&AD) in the scale of 6500-10500 and my pay is fixed at Rs. 6500/-.i.e, minimum of pay scale.

Now as per 6th CPC the pay scale of SO merged with AAO & upgraded also in the pay scale of Rs. 7500-250-12000 with grade pay Rs. 4800/-

Also As per 6th CPC New Appointee/direct recuritee in the grade pay of
Rs. 4800 get Rs. 18150/-

But in my office for promotee they are fixing at Rs. 9300+4800=Rs.14100/-

Wheter this is jusitice as direct recruitee SO get Rs. 18150/- whereas promotee on same post will get Rs. 14100/-
Your department is all confused and you are not raising your voice enough to be heard. Your fixation will be as under
A Accountant was drawing pay of 4500 as on 01-01-2006 in the scale of 4500-125-7000. Consequent on passing the JAO examination he was promoted as a JAO on 22-12-2006 in the scale of 6500-200-10500.

His fixation on 01-01-2006 as Accountant will be:

1 Existing Pay Scale: 4500-175-7000

2 Pay Band Applicable: 5200-20200

3 Existing Basic Pay as on 01-01-2006: 4500

4 Pay after multiplication factor of 1.86: 8370

5 Minimum of Pay in the Pay Band: 8560

6 Pay in the pay band after including benefit of bunching if any: 8560

7 Grade Pay attached to the scale: 2800

8 Revised Pay = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay: 8560 + 2800 = 11360.

9 You will get an increment in july and you pay will become 11710.

His fixation on 21-12-2006 on promotion as JAO will be:

1 Existing Pay Band: 5200-20200 and Existing Grade Pay: 2800

2 Pay Band applicable on promotion: 9300-34800 and Grade Pay: 4800

3 Existing Pay as on 01-04-2006: 8910

4 Existing Grade Pay: 2800

5 Total of existing pay and grade pay: 11710

6 Increment on promotion (@ 3%): 360

7 Pay after increment: 8910 + 360 = 9270

8 Grade Pay in promoted grade: 4800

9 Total of pay and grade pay: 14070

10 Minimum of pay and grade pay in the promoted grade: 18150

11 Revised Pay on promotion = total of pay in the pay band and grade pay in the minimum of scale: 18150

Your pay on promotion will be 18150 as much as a direct recruitee.

Refer to the website http://civilaccounts.blogspot.com/ for more examples appicable to employees of IAAD and other organised accounts offices.

You are now a section officer. You should stand up for what is right and teach those morons in your office about pay fixation.

sundarar
18-10-2008, 10:19 PM
The method for fixation of Pay on Promotion after 1.1.2006 in respect of existing employees other than direct recruits, has been clarified clearly
vide Clarification No.2 of Ministry of Finance O.M. dated 13.9.2008 - Clarifications on CCS (RP) Rules, 2008. In case of anomaly with any junior who gets more pay that may have to be addressed separately. Rgds.

jitendraacr
19-10-2008, 11:00 PM
Dear Deva, I have a little different opinion then others. In my view you must have to get your pay fixed from the date of your promotion after loosing some part of your arrears but to get the maximum benefit of promotion. As of now pay fixation in all cases of merged scales is very confusing and I hope that there is no immediate remedy of it. You may fight for your geniune case but at present go for second option. This option will give you the benefit of upgradation also. Please consider it also. If any one joined after 1/1/06 as direct recruits, but before your date of promotion, stepping is not applicable. however if any one comes after your promotion and getting higher pay then yours, you will also get stepping up of your pay. Please consider both these option and discuss it with your accounts people. Your problem will definetely solve.

sudacgwb
21-10-2008, 02:52 PM
I concur with Jitendraacr and you have to forgo arrears till the date of promotion for full benefit.

There is every likelyhood some clarification will come to redifine merger/upgradation in the near future.

But you must opt from the date of promotion as per OM keeping in view the Clarification OM issued.

Dinesh_dwarka
07-11-2008, 10:47 PM
Hi friends. In my view the pay of JAO appointed on passing SAS(considered promotion) after 01-01-2006 shall be fixed at 18750, which is the minimum recommended for direct recruit in grade pay 4800.
This also follows from the fact that the pay of promotee in no case, on date of joining,can be less than the pay recommended for DR.
So dont loose heart, Fight for your right. Matter can also be clarified from MoF through the provisions of Right to information Act.

mitthan
23-10-2009, 09:32 PM
I concur with Jitendraacr and you have to forgo arrears till the date of promotion for full benefit.

There is every likelyhood some clarification will come to redifine merger/upgradation in the near future.

But you must opt from the date of promotion as per OM keeping in view the Clarification OM issued.

Dear Sir,
Can you clarify a similar situation.

I joined IITR on 01.8.2001 as Associate Professor in scale of 16400-450-20000. I became Professor through open selection on 15.4.2008. It may be noted that since there is no ACP at IIT, the only way of promotion is through open selection and appointment letter was issued for the post of Professor (though no resignation from previous post).

Now the options are invited for revision of pay scale. As I feel, i should exercise the option of fixing the pay as Associate Professor on 1.1.06 (option 1) but (option 2) on the date of next increment (1.7.2008) for Professor post as it crosses the minimum in the new scale (48000/-as per IIT pay scales.

My institute says you can not do that.

Please clarify if I should be given chance to fix the basic as Professor as clarification no. 2 of F.No.1/1/2008-1c dated 13th September 2008, and thereafter further clarification no. F.No.1/1/2008-Ic dated 29th January 2009.

Also, Is the open selection not treated as promotion?

Mitthan

mitthan
23-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Dear friend,
Can you clarify the situation as mentioned below :

I joined IITR on 31.8.2001 as Associate Professor in scale of 16400-450-20000. I became Professor through open selection on 15.4.2008. It may be noted that since there is no ACP, the only way of promotion is through open selection andappointment letter was issued for the post of Professor.
Now the options are invited for revision of pay scale. As I feel, i should exercise the option of fixing the pay as Associate Professor on 1.1.06 (option 1) but (option 2) from the date of next increment (1.7.2008) for Professor post as it crosses the minimum in the new scale (48000/-as per IIT pay scales).

My institute says you can not do that.

Please clarify if I should be given chance to fix the basic as Professor as clarification no. 2 of F.No.1/1/2008-1c dated 13th September 2008, and thereafter further clarification no. F.No.1/1/2008-Ic dated 29th January 2009.

Also, Is the open selection not treated as promotion?

Mitthan

nps
24-10-2009, 09:34 PM
Dear Sir,

If the post was advertised and if you were selected after interview by competing with external or internal candidates, if any, then it is like a new appointment. There shall be protection of 'Pay' on the date of appointment, besides protecion of all other service benefits accrued. That is, the 'Pay' shall not be less than the 'Pay' received in the lower post on the date of appointment.

In your case, date of appointment is before July. Therefore, if your Pay is fixed on that date, there shall be no increment in July.

Yours is a special case. In view of unforeseen circumstances created by by 6th Pay commission terms, you have a right to request that your date of appointment be retaind same (for seniority purpose) and fixation of Pay be delayed till July when you receive your normal increment in the lower post, if that is beneficial. Your PAO may not grant the same without getting clarification from the controlling ministry.

This is similar to FR22(a)(1)(i) fixation for one who receivd a promotion before July. On the date of promotion he/she is granted Grade Pay of promoted psot. In July, he/she would receive two increments. In your case, if the request was granted you will receive one increment only.

In the above paragraph, I mentioned that there should be 'Pay' protection. Is it just 'Pay in the Pay band' or 'Basic Pay' is not clear to me. It shall only be Pay in the Pay band because Grade Pay is a special one.

nps

mitthan
25-10-2009, 09:38 PM
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your reply.
I tried to see the definition of promotion through Wikipedia and other sources.
What I could get is that promotion can be through many ways. My case is of promotion through open selection.

In my case, although it is appointment and I was on lean again, but I did not resign from previous post. Also, no service record was transfered and I continued in old pension scheme. Further, one of my colleague who was promoted through open selection was demoted after one year and brought back to previous position due to administrative reasons. If it is fresh appointment, he should have been terminated, but was not done and demoted to previous post.

So, I feel that it should be promotion through open selection. Now question is - Will the clarification 2 be applicable for pay fixation which gives the method of fixing pay for persons who got promoted between 1.1.06 till to date.

Also, Can I exercise my option for fixing pay on 1.7.08 (i.e. date of increment in my previous position).
Please reply.
Mitthan

mitthan
25-10-2009, 09:50 PM
Dear Sh. nps,
Thanks for your reply.
I tried to see the definition of promotion through Wikipedia and other sources.
What I could get is that promotion can be through many ways. My case is of promotion through open selection.

In my case, although it is appointment and I was on lean again, but I did not resign from previous post. Also, no service record was transfered and I continued in old pension scheme. Further, one of my colleague who was promoted through open selection was demoted after one year and brought back to previous position due to administrative reasons. If it is fresh appointment, he should have been terminated, but was not done and demoted to previous post.

So, I feel that it should be promotion through open selection. Now question is - Will the clarification 2 be applicable for pay fixation which gives the method of fixing pay for persons who got promoted between 1.1.06 till to date.

Also, you rightly pointed that I can request for delay in fixing pay. But my institute says that I do not have any option for pay fixation on or after appointment as Professor on 15.4.2008. How to convince them that I have the right to exercise my option for fixing pay on 1.7.08 (i.e. date of increment in my previous position).

Also, you are right when you say "pay" and not basic pay. Because Basic pay includes grade pay but not D.A. etc.


Please reply.
Mitthan

nps
26-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Dear Sir,
In many Govt Departments staff members appear for a selection test. If they clear the test then they are appointed to a higher post, sometimes 4 to 5 levels higher than the post they held. This is part of their recruitment rules.
I do not think that this is called promotion by selection.

It appears to me that you may represent your case as an 'anomaly' by pointing out the loss of Pay and request clarification and correction. Keep the problem alive by sending reminders until a definitive reply is received.

There is this 'Anomaly Committee' duly constituted by MoF/DoE about 8 months back, which has not even made public the agenda before them. Not sure if any one got the agenda by filing RTI. Not sure why the Employee representatives in the Committee are also keeping the agenda before them as secret.

A copy of your representation may be sent directly to the above Anomaly Committee and also through proper channel.

nps

jitendraacr
28-10-2009, 10:16 PM
Dear friends
Though I have not gone through the entire query and its related reply, I wish to mention that no individual can refer any query/anomaly directly to Anomaly Committee. This can be sent through Union representative or through Committee formed by the individual departments as per MoF instructions.
Jitendra

nps
10-11-2009, 09:22 PM
Dear Sh. nps,
Thanks for your reply.
I tried to see the definition of promotion through Wikipedia and other sources.
What I could get is that promotion can be through many ways. My case is of promotion through open selection.

In my case, although it is appointment and I was on lean again, but I did not resign from previous post. Also, no service record was transfered and I continued in old pension scheme. Further, one of my colleague who was promoted through open selection was demoted after one year and brought back to previous position due to administrative reasons. If it is fresh appointment, he should have been terminated, but was not done and demoted to previous post.

So, I feel that it should be promotion through open selection. Now question is - Will the clarification 2 be applicable for pay fixation which gives the method of fixing pay for persons who got promoted between 1.1.06 till to date.

Also, you rightly pointed that I can request for delay in fixing pay. But my institute says that I do not have any option for pay fixation on or after appointment as Professor on 15.4.2008. How to convince them that I have the right to exercise my option for fixing pay on 1.7.08 (i.e. date of increment in my previous position).

Also, you are right when you say "pay" and not basic pay. Because Basic pay includes grade pay but not D.A. etc.


Please reply.
Mitthan


Dear Sir,
I quote below extracts from CSIR D.O., which are relevant for you. (1) Appointment by selection is not same as intial appointment. (2) You have right to exercise FR22(C) for Pay fixation, which is same as FR22(a)(i)(1) in current parlance.
nps

(22.5.23) Fixation of pay of departmental candidates granted advance increments.
Certain cases of wrong fixation of pay of serving Scientists on their selection against an advertised post have come to the notice of CSIR. In this regard clarification was sought from the Ministry of Finance, Department of Expenditure who have since clarified as follows:
"When a serving employee applies for higher post through proper channel in response to an advertisement, his appointment to the post applied for cannot be treated as an initial appointment. In such cases the pay is fixed either under normal rules or as recommended by the Selection Committee. Both the benefits cannot be given at a time. If the recommendation of the Committee is to fix the pay under normal rules, the benefit of FR 22(C) is admissible, if the selected employee was holding the lower post. In case the Selection Committee recommends advance increments, in that case, neither pay protection is admissible nor benefit of FR 22(C).is admissible and instead only advance increments with reference to the minimum of the scale of post are admissible. This process is adopted even in cases where advance increment(s) are recommended by UPSC............."
In view of the clarification given by the Department of Expenditure,- Ministry of Finance as above, if a serving Scientist applies through proper channel against an advertised post and gets selected, his pay is to be fixed under normal rules i.e. fixation under FR22(C) with reference to the scale of pay in which he was working. This would be so only if Selection Committee does not recommend advance increments.
……
At the time of selection of the candidate, it may be appropriate to advise the Selection Committee the stage at which the pay of an individual would get fixed under normal rules as well as procedure for fixation of pay in case advance increments are recommended so that the Committee Tay take appropriate decision at the time of such selection.
(CSIR D.O. No. 1/68/83-Finance, dated, the 24th January, 1992)

(22.5.24) Fixation of pay where advance increments were sanctioned by Selection Committee/Assessment Committee on promotion.
Reference IFA's D.O. letter of even number dated 24.1.1992 The instructions contained in the said letter have been reviewed and it is decided to give an option to the individuals concerned to get their pay fixed either under erstwhile FR 22(c) or avail the benefit of advance increments on the minimum of the scale, whichever is more beneficial.
(CSIR letter No. 1/68/83-Finance, dated, the 25th May, 1992)
(22.51.25) Pay fixation on Selection/Assessment with advance increments-Departmental Candidates.
Reference the office letter of even number dated 24th Jan., 1992 and subsequent clarification issued vide this office letter dated 25th May 1992 on the above subject. The advice given by Ministry of Finance has been reconsidered and the Governing Body in its 128th meeting held on 16th Feb., 1993 has decided that the advice of the Ministry of Finance may be implemented in respect of all Selections/appointments made on or after 24.1.1992 i.e. the date of issue of instructions in this regard.
You are, therefore, requested that the instructions contained in this office letter of even number dated 24th Jan., 1992 may kindly be treated as amended accordingly.
(CSIR letter No. 1/68/83-Finance, dated, the 16th April, 1993)

mcrao75
19-11-2009, 10:47 PM
Dear Frineds
clarification issued by the government clearly indicates that the up-gradation does not mean that these officials will get placed in the higher pay scale on 01-01-2006 and that their fixation under revised pay bands will be with reference to their pay in the up-graded scale. The up-gradation only means that these officials will draw the grade pay of the up-graded scales. Thus a SO/JAO and a AAO will draw grade pay of 4800 (which is the grade pay for the scale 7500-12500) and an AO will draw grade pay of 5400(which is the grade pay of the scale 8000-13500).

mitthan
08-12-2009, 10:15 PM
I have read about composite method of selection. In that appointment of internal candidates is treated as promotion and for external candidates it is fresh appointment. Will it nor be same in my case. I think all issues will settle if it is treated as promotion.

aneesh
27-12-2009, 11:48 PM
I have read about composite method of selection. In that appointment of internal candidates is treated as promotion and for external candidates it is fresh appointment. Will it nor be same in my case. I think all issues will settle if it is treated as promotion.

Dear Sir

Please check your RR. If the post is to be filled on DR basis it cannot be treated as promotion. There is no option for fixation of pay to them.

tvenkatam
28-12-2009, 09:46 AM
:mad: As on 01.01.2006 : I m Auditor in the scale 4500-7000, my basic Rs. 4500/-

As on 22.12.2006: I m promoted after passing departmental examination as Section Officer(IA&AD) in the scale of 6500-10500 and my pay is fixed at Rs. 6500/-.i.e, minimum of pay scale.

Now as per 6th CPC the pay scale of SO merged with AAO & upgraded also in the pay scale of Rs. 7500-250-12000 with grade pay Rs. 4800/-

Also As per 6th CPC New Appointee/direct recuritee in the grade pay of
Rs. 4800 get Rs. 18150/-

But in my office for promotee they are fixing at Rs. 9300+4800=Rs.14100/-

Wheter this is jusitice as direct recruitee SO get Rs. 18150/- whereas promotee on same post will get Rs. 14100/-

Dear Friend,

Presuming that your appointment to the post of Section Officer is against the direct recruitment vacancy, your pay will be fixed at the minimum entry pay applicable to the current post. Protection of pay drawn in your earlier post is also available in case the pay is higher than the minimum entry pay of the current post. In your case, the pay will be fixed at 12540 plus GP 4600 as on 22.12.2006 in PB-2

mitthan
22-03-2010, 10:27 PM
A junior person got appointed as Professor in 2009, whereas I was appointed as Professor in April 2008. My salary is less as on today. Is it not anamoly? How a junior can get more pay than Senior. In VIth pay commission it is possible as Junior has joined after 1st July and he crosses the minimum of previous post, whereas the senior had not crossed the minimum in the previous post.

tvenkatam
23-03-2010, 09:57 AM
A junior person got appointed as Professor in 2009, whereas I was appointed as Professor in April 2008. My salary is less as on today. Is it not anamoly? How a junior can get more pay than Senior. In VIth pay commission it is possible as Junior has joined after 1st July and he crosses the minimum of previous post, whereas the senior had not crossed the minimum in the previous post.

Dear friend,

You have the protection of Note 10 below Rule 7 of CCS (RP) Rules, whereby your pay will be stepped up at par with that of your junior w.e.f. the date of promotion of your junior.

In addition the issue is already under the consideration of National Anomaly Committee. On approval of recommendations of NAC, the pay of promotees will be fixed subject to the condition that it will not be less than the ‘Entry pay’ prescribed for the promotion post.

You will have to wait and watch.

mitthan
06-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Practically, it can be possible that if a person joins as Professor on 1st July, 2008, his salary may be more than that of person joining on 30th June, 2008. So, there is a flaw. In my opinion, option should be given to direct recruit after 1.1.2006 to get his salary fixed in the new post on the date of next increment in the revised pay of lower post.

tvenkatam
06-04-2010, 10:32 PM
Practically, it can be possible that if a person joins as Professor on 1st July, 2008, his salary may be more than that of person joining on 30th June, 2008. So, there is a flaw. In my opinion, option should be given to direct recruit after 1.1.2006 to get his salary fixed in the new post on the date of next increment in the revised pay of lower post.

Dear friend,

I don’t think that the option suggested by you will resolve the anomaly under question.

mknannapaneni
03-09-2011, 02:32 PM
Sir, I am Murali, working in Central Govt, autonomous organisation. My pay in the Month of May 2011, was 16190 +Grade Pay 4600= 20790 (in the pay band of 9300-34500)

During June 2011, I was appointed (through advt. and selection committee) in same organisation in the pay of 15600-39100 with Grade Pay of 5400/-. I opted that that my Pay is fixed in the month of July, because I will get increment in the month of July 2011 by protecting my pay. Can any body clarify what is my pay in the month of July 2011?

vunnikrishnan
11-09-2011, 08:05 AM
For a Direct rect. , the min. pay on joining is higher than the pay fixed by allowing 3% increment. On promtion/option,pay will be fixed allowing normal 3% inct and again giving fixation with 3 % on this.Still, I think,for DR ,the min. as fixed by pay commn will be lore than this amount.
The separate table given in ccs,RP,rules,gives the min. admissible for each grade pay,pay band etc.

mknannapaneni
11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
Thank you unnikrishnan saab for your valuable reply

Thanking you


With regards


Murali