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View Full Version : Pensioners, you've let yourselves down. Bravo!



harryrakhraj
17-12-2008, 10:32 PM
We've been harping on our own personal & petty grievances through this Forum.But never a thought about sharing experiences which could possibly be quoted as precedents.

Here's a first hand casuality: My Pension Disbursing Authority, SBI, has informed me in writing, that the provisions of Govt OM of 14/10/2008 are NOT applicable in my case:" You retired in the Scale 14300-400-18300 prior to 2006. Hence, you are not elligible for PB-4". I did retire in Oct 2002 at a basic salary of 15100/-.And, the PDA has fixed my revised Pension at 19779/- from which the Commuted Amount has to be deducted.

If we don't share experiences, why do we join this Forum?

I am frustrated.

badri mannargudi
18-12-2008, 12:01 AM
We've been harping on our own personal & petty grievances through this Forum.But never a thought about sharing experiences which could possibly be quoted as precedents.

Here's a first hand casuality: My Pension Disbursing Authority, SBI, has informed me in writing, that the provisions of Govt OM of 14/10/2008 are NOT applicable in my case:" You retired in the Scale 14300-400-18300 prior to 2006. Hence, you are not elligible for PB-4". I did retire in Oct 2002 at a basic salary of 15100/-.And, the PDA has fixed my revised Pension at 19779/- from which the Commuted Amount has to be deducted.

If we don't share experiences, why do we join this Forum?

I am frustrated.

Dear sir (Sri Harryrakhrajee)
We share your agony. But do not get frustrated. What may be petty grievance to your honour may be of much importance to the other person and it is not possibe to set Margins on this score. It may be a relative term and would depend upon how the victim sees it.
If you have been watching the forum for quite sometime, then, I am sure, you may appreciate the fact that this forum has served many a serving emplyee/reitired person.
I am extremely sorry for your state of affairs, but I am conscious of what I say. Kindly appreciate that the stars like Shri Natarajanjee, shri S.C.Maheshwari, and Sundararjee and others are spending their valuable time only in trying to mitigate hardships of retired persons like you, sir.
Coming to the subject, it appears that parity with the current retirees (on or after 01.01.2006) is the topic of your problem.
I sincerely hope that Shri Natarajan would be in a position to clear the air on the issue raised by you, sir (Sri Harryrakhrajee).
Yours sincerely,
Badri

vnatarajan
18-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Dear Mr Harry

Elsewhere I had answered your doubt on this item.

Somewhere also I / some one else also had given the information that Rs 14300-18300
S24 pre-revised scale pensioners are fixed at Rs 23050.BP wef 1.1.2006.

You must know that this scale is the least affected and they are the foundation of PB4 scale now Rs 37400-67000. You are correct. Since they have no grievance to vent out, they have not shared the information!

YOUR BANK IS DOING WRONG - IF YOU ARE CORRECT.

Mr Badri has rightly advised to have patience and sort out the issue.

Many SBI branches here at Chennai - though they have paid the first instalment - ie based on 2.26 formula (Rs 19793 may be in your case - pl chk for urself- half of Rs 15100 ie 7550 multi plied by 2.26 plus 16% DR as on date), are yet to implement the 14th Oct 2008. They are doing it slowly as there are huge number of pensioners on their rolls.

I dont know where you are located. So I am not in a position to offer any opinion about the SBI branch from where you are drawing your pension.Many people hide their identities- I do not know why? I do understand the reasons in case of serving employees- but would the pensioners lose?

I am critical of the Govt. their Administration etc- Mr Badri in service now- does so- it is only with good intentions we debate here! At least Gconnect will not stop my pension!!!!

Pl. check the following - (I MAY BE WRONG- in asking you to do so).

1.Whether your PPO has your scale mentioned after the post you held last. If this detail is not there - even after the 14th Oct OM orders- your Bank may not be able to fix your pension.

2.Pl verify whether your branch has the copy of the 14th Oct OM and also whether they have been authorised to FIX your revised pension as per the same.

3.Otherwise pl ask for the reasons. I understand, immediately after the issue of 14th Oct 2008 OM, unlike many other banks, the SBI Apex authority had asked its Main/Central Pension Branch in a place like Chennai (having a large no. of pensioners on their disbursement list) have taken back all the PPOs of the pensioners from individual small branches and they have taken up the responsibility of fixing up the final pension as in cases like yours and several others who are entitled to pensions above the 2.26 formula, TO AVOID ANY OVER-PAYMENTS/ ERRORS .

I am not sure of your position- unless you share more information sfter you verify the above points.

BUT ONE THING IS SURE- YOU WILL GET Rs 23050 fixation- if not today- may be tomorrow- no need to get disheartebned- IT IS A MATTER of TIME and PATIENCE as Mr Badri has said.

Mr HARRY_ YOU BELONG TO THAT CATEGORY OF Pre-2006 PENSIONERS WHO ARE THE LEAST AFFECTED IN PB-4 AFTER 6CPC OMs. So there is no reason to be unhappy or disillusioned.

Regards

vnatarajan

RSundaram
18-12-2008, 08:23 AM
My dear VN
This is to convey my sincere appreciation to you for your detailed and painstaking reply to Mr. Harry. In his case the fault lies not in his stars but in his not asking the bank 1) to clarify and 2) to give a statement of dues and drawn and revised PPO.

Kriku56
18-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Dear Sri Harryrakhrajee,

I can very well understand the frustration.I am also retired in the same scale as yours. Retired from DAE in July 2004. The fact is that the persons concerned at PDA- Banks are too busy with their specific banking jobs. To get a proper reply one has to have extra patience.I always feel that the interpretation of rules and fixation of pension should be done only by the Deptt:concerned who is having all details.

Sir, I request you to have some more patience. We will get the new pension soon. I quote " Miles to go for Smiles to come". I am sure that no one can take away from our rights. I am grateful to All friends in the forum PENSIONERs for their valuable works,information's and posting the same in gconnect.

Let the New Year brings Smile in Our faces.
With warm regards
kriku56-Baroda.

Kriku56
18-12-2008, 01:04 PM
Dear Sri Harryrakhrajee,

I can very well understand the frustration.I am also retired in the same scale as yours. Retired from DAE in July 2004. The fact is that the persons concerned at PDA- Banks are too busy with their specific banking jobs. To get a proper reply one has to have extra patience.I always feel that the interpretation of rules and fixation of pension should be done only by the Deptt:concerned who is having all details.

Sir, I request you to have some more patience. We will get the new pension soon. I quote " Miles to go for Smiles to come". I am sure that no one can take away from our rights. I am grateful to All friends in the forum PENSIONERs for their valuable works,information's and posting the same in gconnect.

Let the New Year brings Smile in Our faces.
With warm regards
kriku56-Baroda.

subba Rao R S
18-12-2008, 03:55 PM
We've been harping on our own personal & petty grievances through this Forum.But never a thought about sharing experiences which could possibly be quoted as precedents.

Here's a first hand casuality: My Pension Disbursing Authority, SBI, has informed me in writing, that the provisions of Govt OM of 14/10/2008 are NOT applicable in my case:" You retired in the Scale 14300-400-18300 prior to 2006. Hence, you are not elligible for PB-4". I did retire in Oct 2002 at a basic salary of 15100/-.And, the PDA has fixed my revised Pension at 19779/- from which the Commuted Amount has to be deducted.

If we don't share experiences, why do we join this Forum?

I am frustrated.


I have already posted in the injustice to pensioner thread That you have to write a letter to SBI enclosing your data and the copy of the 14th OCT 2008 letter to your bank and the same will be forwarded by your branch to the PPC. Two of my co-pensioners at Bangalore have already receved the revised pension and arrears. I have also posted the format. Please follow this you will get the revised pension and arrears.

R S Subba Rao

vnatarajan
18-12-2008, 06:39 PM
Dear Mr Sundaram.

Many thanks for your posting. But perhaps Mr Harry is disappointed- so no reaction from him!

Regards

vnatarajan.

Dear Mr Harry,

Some more information from Chennai:

1.SBI/ its many branches at Chennai- earlier also I had mentioned in parallel threads - were the earliest to pay the first instalment of pension arrears/ also carry out the first pension implementation exercise as per say 1.9.2008 OM - strictly following the 2.26 formula -pension fitment table.

2.They were also the earliest to give Due- Drawn arrear statements to all such payees.
(I do not know where you are located- therefore what I comment here is wrt Chennai mainly)

3.Even here- there are at least few cases of senior pensioners - SAG level- and their pensions are yet to be finally fixed as per 14th Oct 2008 OM. (AT THE SAME TIME I MAY MAKE A MENTION here that THERE ARE SEVERAL SEL.GRADE DIRECTORS of my Deptt (scale 14300-18300- same as yours) who had their pension fixed as Rs 23050 basic pension wef 1.1.2006 and also had recieved payments.- NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT).

4. Reverting back to first part of 3 above,in one case, the scale of pay was not mentioned in the PPO - and after the pensioner had met the CGM (SBI) at the apex office, based on the amount of Basic Pension he started recieving (say 9200 ppm as mentioned in the revised PPO after 5CPC) from 1.1.1996, it was agreed that he was drawing a minimum basic pay of Rs 18400 at the time of retirement- and now after taking his statement in person, the bank has agreed to fix his pension soon (in the PB4 as per 14th Oct 08 OM)- may be in a day or two.

5.In another case of my close colleague/ from same Deptt, where all particulars are including scale of pay are in order in the PPO, the case of fixation is delayed because the Central cell has taken away all the PPOs from the branches and they are fixing the final pension.

6.A Canara Bank Br is also delaying in another case - because of scale of pay controversy- missing entry. Will be through today.

7.In my own case, I went to Bangalore - the place of my retirement- got a certificate from my deptt as to my scale of pay etc and after providing it to my bank here (Bk of Mah, Besant Nagar Branch)- I recieved my full "mutilated" pension. (I have narrated my case earlier in parallel thread elsewhere!).

8.Mr Subba Rao is the person - whom I meant ( "someone else") as I could not remember his name quickly- who had also posted his experience/ getting his pension fixation correctly.

HE WAS GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO OFFER TO MEET IN PERSON AT BANGALORE AND HAND ME OVER A COPY OF HIS PPO IF IT WOULD HELP ME.

Best of luck.

Regards

vnatarajan

harryrakhraj
18-12-2008, 10:19 PM
Dear Mr Harry

Elsewhere I had answered your doubt on this item.

Somewhere also I / some one else also had given the information that Rs 14300-18300
S24 pre-revised scale pensioners are fixed at Rs 23050.BP wef 1.1.2006.

You must know that this scale is the least affected and they are the foundation of PB4 scale now Rs 37400-67000. You are correct. Since they have no grievance to vent out, they have not shared the information!

YOUR BANK IS DOING WRONG - IF YOU ARE CORRECT.

Mr Badri has rightly advised to have patience and sort out the issue.

Many SBI branches here at Chennai - though they have paid the first instalment - ie based on 2.26 formula (Rs 19793 may be in your case - pl chk for urself- half of Rs 15100 ie 7550 multi plied by 2.26 plus 16% DR as on date), are yet to implement the 14th Oct 2008. They are doing it slowly as there are huge number of pensioners on their rolls.

I dont know where you are located. So I am not in a position to offer any opinion about the SBI branch from where you are drawing your pension.Many people hide their identities- I do not know why? I do understand the reasons in case of serving employees- but would the pensioners lose?

I am critical of the Govt. their Administration etc- Mr Badri in service now- does so- it is only with good intentions we debate here! At least Gconnect will not stop my pension!!!!

Pl. check the following - (I MAY BE WRONG- in asking you to do so).

1.Whether your PPO has your scale mentioned after the post you held last. If this detail is not there - even after the 14th Oct OM orders- your Bank may not be able to fix your pension.

2.Pl verify whether your branch has the copy of the 14th Oct OM and also whether they have been authorised to FIX your revised pension as per the same.

3.Otherwise pl ask for the reasons. I understand, immediately after the issue of 14th Oct 2008 OM, unlike many other banks, the SBI Apex authority had asked its Main/Central Pension Branch in a place like Chennai (having a large no. of pensioners on their disbursement list) have taken back all the PPOs of the pensioners from individual small branches and they have taken up the responsibility of fixing up the final pension as in cases like yours and several others who are entitled to pensions above the 2.26 formula, TO AVOID ANY OVER-PAYMENTS/ ERRORS .

I am not sure of your position- unless you share more information sfter you verify the above points.

BUT ONE THING IS SURE- YOU WILL GET Rs 23050 fixation- if not today- may be tomorrow- no need to get disheartebned- IT IS A MATTER of TIME and PATIENCE as Mr Badri has said.

Mr HARRY_ YOU BELONG TO THAT CATEGORY OF Pre-2006 PENSIONERS WHO ARE THE LEAST AFFECTED IN PB-4 AFTER 6CPC OMs. So there is no reason to be unhappy or disillusioned.

Regards

vnatarajan
Thanks, Mr. vnatrajan!
I do need to value the virtue of PATIENCE!

Time permitting, I'll try to allay all doubts raised,
in the next 2-3 days.

Regards.

vnatarajan
05-01-2009, 04:01 PM
Mr Harry

Any progress in your case? Could you get your pension finally?

vnatarajan.

subba Rao R S
26-03-2009, 11:15 AM
Io all pensioners association,


I have been following the difficulty faced by the pensioners in getting revised pension and arrears. I would like to share my experiance on this here. Banks are not knowledgable on the PPOs(Pension payment Order) and PPCs(Pension Payment Certificate) issued by the central government. When I went to SBI CPPC I could see the difficulty faced by them for want of certain data on the PPO. The proceesing was more complicated in respect of pensioners of age 80 years and above. PPOs do not contain all the data required by the order of the government to facilitate the disbursement of revised pension and arrears. I had tough argument with CPPC and was convinced that they have difficulty while implementing the decision. This is mainly because of PPOs and PPCs. When I showed the PPO/PPC issued to me by Controller Of Defence Accounts the bank was able to process. This is because this had most the data available in the service book.

Reason for the above is at least now Various central Govt pensioners Associations can have a discussion with the Govt and arrive at a Meaningful PPO common to all central govt employees so that next 7 CPC implementation will be smooth.

I request the associations to look into this as a long term measure. Existing epmloyees also can contribute to this cause.


Subba Rao R S

Kanaujiaml
26-03-2009, 05:25 PM
My dear Mr. Subba. Ref. Post 11. My experience with the CPPC/New Delhi, a unit of SBI to do fixation of Revised Pension, had been very very different. I started recieving my initial pension as per formula BP multiplied by 2.26, from Sept.08 and I alsoreceived some arrears. I visited my local SBI Branch at IMA/Dehra Dun, on 27.01.09, to find out why my final pension is not being given even after issue of Govt. orders to banks vide OM dated 14 10 08 to do it within one week's time. Instead, I was told to give a written appeal for processing my Revised Pension so that the same may be sent to CPPC/New Delhi. I did the same. After one month I agains enquired and was told that you should contact CPPC/New Delhi. I sent an application again directly to CPPC/New Delhi. When I contacted on phone, the dealing official told me rudely that there are only 3 people doing pension fixation work for whole of Uttrakhand and they cannot produe miracles. I may mention it that all my papers including PPO with all requisite information, are available on web site of SBI. Also, OM dated 14 10 08 is very clear and table is available. This is happening in north India. I believe, things are a little better in south India. And, one more thing SBI is not the only bank, doing this. Other Govt. Banks are also doing the same. The pensioners had to stage a demonstration even to receive initial pension.

G.Ramdas
26-03-2009, 09:32 PM
Reg. posts above.
Let us prepare now itself for the next pay commission and pension revision.
In view of our pay scales getting submerged in the pay band ocean we will not have any identity.
Those who have got their pension fixed under the much maligned para 4.2 will have at least some thing to say that the grade pay reflected the post from which they retired(though the pay band will also show that they have been downgraded). Unfortunately pensioners like me , do not have even this identity as the 2.26 formual(para 4.1) does not tell any thing about the post from which one retires.
At a time when we have all these records available in PPO &PPC, we still face a lot of problems. One can imagine the situation when one does not have any proof of identity about post from which he retired in the pension documents available with the pension disbursing banks

G.Ramdas