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View Full Version : How Effective Is the System of Redressal of Grievances of Pensioners?



vnatarajan
31-10-2008, 12:35 PM
hi Dear Co-Pensioners

How effective is the system of redressal of grievances of Pensioners?

Many aged,handicapped,family/dependent pensioners etc. are helpless due to various reasons and they have no support to get their problems related to pension matters resolved!

I am aware quite a few have passed away either not knowing where to go for such resolutions or waiting for a resolution of a problem which never got resolved!

Our Govt. has definitely taken care to install a PENSIONERS' GRIEVANCE CELL of the Deptt. of Pensioners & Pensioners' Welfare, under the Ministry of Personnel etc (of which - I am not shy to admit-many including me might not have been aware of till quite sometime) and it has the following functions as found in its website:
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"The functions of the Pension Grievances Cell in the Department of Pension and P.W. are as under:-

To register the complaints received from various sources pertaining to pensionary matters
To forward the complaints to the concerned Ministries/Departments etc.,
To pursue with the Departments
To remind the Departments and
To review and monitor the position every fortnight
Pension grievances appearing in the Newspapers/media will be attended to and Editors informed of the action taken

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I HAVE TRIED TO FIND OUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS SYSTEM where you can register your (pensioners') complaint- perhaps even online- and then await the result(s). But so far I have not got any feedback from my sources.

HOWEVER I AM POSTING A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MEMBERS? VIEWERS TO RESPOND and give me a feedback:

1.I am aware many have now made appeals to DoP/PW because of the anomoly/ disparity in Pension fixation formulae etc consequent to 6th CPC implementation OMS. HAS ANYONE RECEIVED ANY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT/ REPLY/ SOLUTION SO FAR? TIME LAPSED?STILL AWAITING?

2.Have you any past experiences- good or bad- with respect to any appeals made for redressal of any grievances? If so can u share the details with us?
RESULT? TIME FRAME?

3.Can we repose faith in such systems and wait without approaching other avenues like courts?

vnatarajan

RSundaram
31-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Dear Mr Natarajan
You have raised an important issue. My experience with all government websites which offer online redressing or looking into grievance is very disappointing. Three years ago I had the worst nerve racking and nail baiting experience in Passport at Chennai .

One reason, of course, is our culture of patronage which requires somebody, more powerful or higher in the heirarchy to speak to someone dealing with the matter in the particular government office.I remember the case of senior pensioner which was circulated between the Defence Ministry and DOPT for two years without a decision despite being regularly reminded by the aggrieved, , never put up to any senior officer not even up to the Joint Secretary for a decision. Had it been the case , say, of an IAS officer somebody would have spoken to somebody , some communication would have been received.

Second is the reluctance of the senior government officers to read anything which is not put up on file bound in red tape. Although they may use laptops they will only check their personal emails.

Thirdly, not many who are in charge or handling matters of an office like Pensions have empathy for the persons who are seeking help. For them it is another paper to be disposed of. The IAS officer in cahrge of Pensions at the fag end of his/her career has his/her eyes fixed on Post Retirement Jobs like UPSC Member or Chairman of CAT or some such thing. At lower levels for an IAS DOPT is the most unattractive job unless his job relates to empanelling and putting up names for the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet.

Routinely government with fanfare introduces online schemes without changing their procedures. For example for all Online applications/grievances they can give a date by which either a solution , clarification or status can be promised. They can suo moto put up a Query Answer column in their website dsplaying the Grievance and their answer so that those who can understand the issue need not pester them with the same issue.For this workflow has to be monitored using modern IT methods.

To start with may I suggest that you file an application under RTI asking how many of the Greivances on pension on line have been satisfactorily resolved, either to the satisfaction of the individual or even the government.

vnatarajan
31-10-2008, 04:19 PM
Dear Mr Sundaram

Unfortunately, the Pensioners- who are also mostly senior citizens, are subjected to great harassments everywhere! Be it Pensioners'Cell or CGHS or Passport Offices or even courts of law! Though the Ministry of Social Justice (I think another less preferred destination in the Indian bureaucracy) lists a number of items for priority attention of various Ministries as also Courts of law, nothing seems to be effective.

Even time-frames given have no meaning in some of the websites!

Many websites remain unupdated or dead!

REGARDING YOUR IMPORTANT SUGGESTION ON AVAILING THE RTI PROVISIONS, I shall have to open another THREAD- because my FORUM has raised some points with some Ministries/ Departments and some experiences are already there- nothing of great consequence! WE SHALL AVAIL THE RTI PROVISIONS ALSO SOON!

Let us gather some data to start with- if we can!

Thanks for your involvement in the debate and suggestions.

vnatarajan

sudacgwb
01-11-2008, 06:48 AM
Dear Mr.VNatarajan & Sundaram,

I concur with your observations in this regard. Let me first thank both of youfor starting this thread before penning more!

I have, on behalf of a very senior family pensioner, my mother who is 83+, sent queries to the DOPT through website which has given the ack number for record. Absolutely no response even after few months in this regard.

These sections in the Ministry must contain those who are dedicated and service minded, for whom there is no dearth in the govt.

It is sad the efficiency of the bureaucracy is coming down and lacks knowledge, conviction and committment.

This is largely due to non recognition of these traits now either by their bosses or political wing of the government.

The PM/MOF/DOPT should ensure those who are sensitive to the needs of senior citizens are posted here.

ss

vnatarajan
01-11-2008, 08:01 AM
hi

Dear Mr Sudacgwb

You have given a concrete first-hand experience on the functioning of the Grienance/ Redressal Cell of the DoP/PW. I AM SURE THERE MUST BE HUNDREDS OF SUCH EXPERIENCES.

Your valuable comments/ suggestions are very logical! OF COURSE WE HAVE (WITH OUR BACKGROUNDS!) CAN & MUST ADMIT REASONABLE DELAYS (even by a multiple of 2 or 3) but not beyond ie outlasting the life of the pensioners themselves!

WITH THE ADVANTAGE OF "IT" FOR GOVERNANCE, the GOVT. OF INDIA must think of out-sourcing the MONITORING of subjects like:grievances of Pensioners to EFFECTIVE PENSIONERS' FEDERATIONS/ ASSOCIATIONS/ UNIONS or at least INVOLVE THEM in such a mechanism, so that interim solutions can be found out.

Say for eg: Such non-statutory systems can help to carry out the initial scrutiny of the grievances- and decide on:

1.Whether there is a prima- facie reason for the grievance?
2.What are the possible issues?
3.What are the possibles applications/ interpretations w.r.t prevailing Rules/ Regulations etc.
4.What are the precedences in similar cases if any/ including Court Judgements.
5.Suggested solutions.

These steps can be easily attendeed to by experienced Pensioners/ their Groups and the succeding steps could be attended to by the MINISTRIES/DEPTTS. concerned!

Many sensitive areas are being outsourced in the country- and outsoucing the processing of GRIEVANCES under GOVTs' own supervision cannot be that sensitive!

PL. ALL CAN CONTINUE THE DEBATE .

vnatarajan

mukuntharajan
12-11-2008, 02:26 PM
sir

i lodged a complaint with the Public Grievance through online about 2 - 3 years ago on rejection of my reimbursement claim by CGHS particularly for facilities not available in any of the referral hospitals. I got the registration number and I was checking the position online. my complaint was shown as referred to concerned authority for about 3 months and subsequently they have removed my complaint even though no decision was conveyed to me. i was not able to file reminders too.

if we go through the pendency of cases, we can find many cases are solved and some cases are pending for 2- 3 years also. all my information dates back to more than 2 years and i have lost faith in it and that is why i am not browsing that site at all. at one time the site showed there was no pending cases between 3 & 6 months but a few number of cases were pending for over 2 years.

one thing i understood was that if they feel the case is legally strong but rule-wise ineligible, they will neither reject nor approve as their impression is that we will go to court. the pub.grievance is in reality only making our approach to judiciary delayed.

sudacgwb
12-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Thank you for rating the DOPT Grievance cell for Pensioners! The policy of the govt is negated by the lethargy of the executive.

No paper work, no need to waste time on so many formalities except:

1. To spare few minutes to analyse the query and

2. Ask the concerned Babu to respond on line which will be available at that moment itself.

Intention of the govt. is one thing and willingness to put to practice is another. Without commitment and accountability nothing can be achieved.

ss

vnatarajan
13-11-2008, 01:03 PM
hi
Dear Mr Sudacgwb/ Mr AVM & all

All will agree with the observations made by both the experienced authors.

I think we shd try to de-dust the system before they become rusted and rotten!

Mr AVM and I are already trying the RTI route in some cases- and we did get replies- but may not be to the extent they are fully informative!

I think where possible the RTI route also shd be tried to wake up the sleeping/ indifferent authorities.

vnatarajan

sundarar
13-11-2008, 02:39 PM
Dear Sirs,

Today, I noticed that the website pensionerspotal.gov.in under `what is new' has posted a copy of their letter No.38/35/2008-P&PW(A) dated 17.4.2008 addressed to All Pensioners' Associations, calling for their views/comments on the recommendations of 6th CPC relating to pensionary benefits. As suggestions also called for in general through the website under column `contact us', I mailed the following suggestion to the Director (PP) Shri MP Singh through e-mail.

Dear Sir,

It gives me pleasure to visit your web site - personersportal.gov.in and particularly the column under title `What is New'.

I noticed that DoP&PW had issued a Circular on 17.4.2008 giving hardly one week's time calling for views/comments on implementation of 6CPC recommendations from all Pensioners' associations. In the same way, I would like to suggest that the DoP&PW may call for a feed back through this pensionersportal on the O.M.s issued so far by them, from the individual pensioners as well as Pensioners' associations, but with sufficient time please.

I hope that by this time, the Dept. would have received numerous representations from various agencies regarding their grievances on implementation of the Recommendation of 6CPC. The same also can be made available in a consolidated manner along with your quick response in the web site itself so that every individual will get immediate feed back on their feed back.

With regards.

Best Regards.

vnatarajan
13-11-2008, 06:38 PM
Mr Sundarar

Wonderful initiative.

As many of us as possible, shall have to follow suit. Yes why not the DoP/PW do that before precipitating matters?

hi All-Pl do CONTACT DoP/PW!

vnatarajan

vnatarajan
02-12-2008, 07:46 AM
Dear all

I have copied the complaint of Mr harryrakhraj here to have some continuity on the emerging "status" of complaint/ redressal system- particularly after the 6CPC!.
I think it will COLLAPSE due to the volume and weight of the total no. of complaints!


For what it's worth, I wish to share this bit of information with fellow Pensioners:

i If your PDA is SBI, you may lodge your complaint with the following:-
RM R-2 DZO <agmr2.zodel@sbi.co.in>, CPPC DELHI <sbi.04475@sbi.co.in>
ii You may also like to lodge your complaint online with <pensionersportal.gov.in>.

I have lodged my complaint with both the above and am looking forward to their response.

vnatarajan

S.C.Maheshwari
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Dear all,
RREWA has the pleasure to announce that the Ministry of Personnel, PG & Pensions under their scheme for implementation of Pensioners Portal is training RREWA representatives to process the grievances of all Central Government Pensioners including Defence and Rly. Pensioners through their web based portal. From 11. 12 .08 onwards you may send your Grievance on the following format for further processing to S.C.Maheshwari General Secretary/Nodal officer RREWA, 490A/16 Gurudwara Road, civil lines Gurgaon-122001(Hr) e-mail :rrewa@dataone.in &pensioner77@yahoo.com
RREWA will endeavor to get your legitimate grievance resolved .Kindly be brief &to the point giving details in the prescribed format

Grievance Redress Format
1. If you have any grievance in pension matters you may take it up with your Head of Office, the pension sanctioning authority or the pension disbursing authority, as the case may be.
2. If considered necessary, you may also approach the Department of Pension and Pensioners Welfare, Lok Nayak Bhawan (3rd Floor), Khan Market, New Delhi-110003, which is the nodal Department for looking into the grievances and problems of pensioners or Secretary (PG), Directorate of Public Grievances, Cabinet Secretariat, Sardar Patel Bhawan, Parliament Street, New Delhi-110001.
3. For prompt attention, all your correspondence should contain the following essential details, so that past records can be easily linked,
(a) Name
(b) Full address
(c) Office from which retired (name of the office may be indicated in full)
(d) Post held at the time of retirement (and scale of pay)
(e) If pension has been sanctioned , quantum may be specified.
(i) The particulars of Accounts Officer which issued the PPO.
(ii) The particulars of Pension Disbursing Authority.
(iii) PPO number / or a photocopy of the PPO.
(iv) Give reference of Representations/correspondence made with your department so far & of the reply if any received (better attach Xerox copies)
(v) Your representation in brief and short (in less than 4000 characters or 150 to 200 words only)


Regards
S.C.Maheshwari
General Secretary RREWA

vnatarajan
07-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Dear Shri Maheshwari

Congratulations

This is something great- in fact I had joked with Mr R Sundaram in a posting to him in another thread- offering my services free of cost (if place to sleep and food are provided!) to help the CPAO/ Accounting Offices to digitise/ computerise all the PPOs sooner or later!

I think apart from grievances, updating/ digitised storiage of all the PPOs must also be taken up- so that any pensioner/ family pensioner/ disbursing offices like banks/ POs can access the same on the identified portal.

Regards

vnatarajan

badri mannargudi
07-12-2008, 06:53 PM
Would be pensioners too,(like I am,through this forum) would be thanking Shri/Smt Maheshwarijee Shri Natarajanjee and others and would be congratulating them.
The fruits of success have started coming and it must be as if milk and honey flowing into the eyes and ears of the current pensioners.
With regards,
Badri.

S.C.Maheshwari
08-12-2008, 06:27 PM
Dear friend,
In fact DOP has not out sourced Grievance redressal, rather they have associated 27 Associations(RREWA is one of these) with the implementation of the process. Currently they are training representatives of these associations .We have three very good officers in DOP who really wish to do some thing for pensioners. Pensioners portal & Grievance redressal machenism is their brain child.Now the success of the project will largely depend on the performance of these associations and on the performance of PGOs indifferent department.From RREWA's side I assure you of all out effort and seek
co- operation of the entire comunity of pensioners. Process for e ppos too is in progress.
regards
Maheshwari

dnaga57
08-12-2008, 07:24 PM
God bless you Mr Maheshwari. I knew it was worth adding more grease to your elbow.
Best reagrds

Kanaujiaml
09-12-2008, 07:54 PM
My dear Mr. Maheshwari , other friends. Initiative taken by you is praiseworthy. I am with you all the way, as I assured you elsewhere. As at present grievance redressal mechanism of DOP is at standstill. Once it is taken over by the associations, it may start giving results provided, some authority is invested with a time frame. This needs to be taken up properly with the DOP.

vnatarajan
12-12-2008, 02:10 PM
Dear Shri Maheshwari,

Such steps, even if it has to be in a sort of out-sourcing mode, are most welcome- if the steps are in the right earnest. In my earlier notings I had pointed out the scope of such or similar processing supports like:

"1.Whether there is a prima- facie reason for the grievance?
2.What are the possible issues?
3.What are the possibles applications/ interpretations w.r.t prevailing Rules/ Regulations etc.
4.What are the precedences in similar cases if any/ including Court Judgements.
5.Suggested solutions"

In case the support of associations/ federations are taken to hasten up the issues/ resolve many minor ones easily and quickly, the pensionrs will gain confidence in the grievance redressal mechanism

I am not sure whether the 27 such associations are spread all over the country or are they concentrated at Delhi and nearby only? If these are located in all vital capital cities of the country, many pensioners may benefit quickly.

In fact, in the current scenerio, if the Banks had been advised to take the voluntary support of such Pensioner Associations/ Forums for quick interpretations/ fixations STRICTLY according to the frame-work provided in the OMs, payments could have been completed by now.

(While such Pensioner Associations/ Forums/ Fedrations can not have any authority to settle cases or take decisions, the initial processing itself will be very helpful to speed up the mechanism).

vnatarajan

S.C.Maheshwari
13-12-2008, 12:41 PM
Dear sirs,
These 27 associations are spread all over, However three of these are located at Delhi,1.Bharat pensioners Samaj 2. AICCPA 3.Indian Ex ServiceMan and the fourth one in the vicinity of Delhi i.e.RREWA at Gurgaon. The selection was based on certain prelaid parameters & perfomance. Iwill be posting the addresses of all these Association on RREWA Web site by tomarrow evening.As for as RREWA is concerned its members are spread all over the country,a good number of them are computer litrates ,All such RREWA members can scruitnize complaints in there cities & can record complaints on line on behalf of RREWA (by selcting Organization& then typing RREWA),e. mailing the registration No. Page (showing the registration no after recording) to RREWA Genl. Secy.Grievance . Redressal Button is located at the top of Home page (RREWA Website)towards right hand side & is available w/o login. At present there are several bottle necks & the pensioners portal it self is not fully operational. I had the apportunity to discuss all these issues with the Secretary & the concerned Directors & they have assured of support.RREWA membership is not a precondition for handling complaints as we believe in service first.
Regards
Maheshwari

vnatarajan
15-12-2008, 03:03 PM
Dear All

This is to inform you all that the Grievance Portal of Deptt of Pension/ Pensioners Welfare could be easily accessed by me this morning around 11 AM through RREWA website- as earlier guided by Shri Maheshwari- and I could register my grievance on the disparity issue related to my pension fixation by Bank.

Your Grievance may be pruned to 4000 characters say 200 to 250 words at the maximum- without overloading the Grievance inset box(not including the initial personal details) and avoid upper case characters like apostrophes (" ' etc).

I hope Shri Maheshwari will now help all of us for a speedy processing. My thanks are to him for his continued interest.

vnatarajan

dnaga57
17-12-2008, 07:00 AM
I note we have to submit info on a format about our PPO- Family particulars etc as per Rly Bds letter No F(E)III/2008 ....for VIth PC dated 8-9-2008.
I retired from South Eastern Railway in 1982.
I reside in Secunderabad -
My pension linking office is FA CAO SC Rly.
My pension drawing bank is SBI ( a very good branch)
Is the form in triplicate to be sent to SE Rly or SC Rly FA CAO Pension? or both?
Any advice would be gratefully accepted.

S.C.Maheshwari
18-12-2008, 04:03 PM
Pl send your Form to SE Rly i.e the Rly from which you retired & which issued your revised ppo after acceptance of Vth CPC recomendations.
Regrds
Maheshwari

RSundaram
25-12-2008, 09:04 AM
From The Hindu 25 December,2008


Indian Bank sets up cell for pensioners

CHENNAI: Indian Bank has created an exclusive pensioner’s grievance cell in respect of revision as per VI Pay commission. The bank has provided toll free number 1800-425-0025 and also mobile number 09445030403 and landline number 044-25225066 to facilitate the pensioners to contact and resolve the issues. According to a release, the desk in Chennai will also handle directly between 7 am and 7 p.m for a month from December 15.

dnaga57
25-12-2008, 11:00 AM
Thanks Mr Maheshwari
I have sent the form in triplicate with age proof for my wife attached.
Hope it will be acted upon.