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sanchali
24-04-2011, 08:33 PM
Sir,
1. In central government offfices who is responsible for noting the arrival and departure of the staff ?
2. Are officers not required to sign at arrival and departure ?
3. Can deputy directors be excused, if they come regularly to the office at twelve and stay in office beyond office hours for their own interest ? where as employees coming at thirty past ten get late mark?
Is it not the malpractice of power?
4. Kindly reply soon to avoid the malpractice of the authority.

prasannakumar
24-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Sirs,
1. Every department has got its own rule in this aspect. Normally head of office has to not this. If it is a big establishment, there will be other officers designated such as section heads for this work

2. This also depend up on the rules and guidelines circulated from the Head of the department which shall be amended from from time to time.

3. Punctuality is one and the same for all irrespective of cadres. However, there are certain relaxations for field functionaries.

4. First and foremost, one has to be perfect before questioning others. However, for correction of malpractice of authorities, these instances have to be brought out to the notice of further higher authorities which is their look out to set right the personnel concerned

Thanks and regards
Prasanna Kumar

RKPATHAK
25-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Normally an officer of Section Officer level is authorised to note arrival and departure of staff. It is expected that a senior executive observe regularity and punctuality but in India where corruption is the way of life the seniors flaw the rule and nothing can be done. You can catch a mice in cage but not a big fish

prasannakumar
26-04-2011, 10:35 PM
Normally an officer of Section Officer level is authorised to note arrival and departure of staff. It is expected that a senior executive observe regularity and punctuality but in India where corruption is the way of life the seniors flaw the rule and nothing can be done. You can catch a mice in cage but not a big fish

Yes. 100% correct
Prasanna Kumar

R K Rao
28-04-2011, 11:11 PM
I agree, Sirs. But you know what is the beauty ? Hear me out - A few years back, an Officer and a staff used come by same train, get down at the same station. The officer had vehicle from station to office whereas the staff had to walk ( about 10 minutes walk). The officer used to come and sit in his chair and keep the attendance (since he was detailed to control it) and mark the staff late. When questioned (jovially), he arrogantly used to remark - 'These are the some of the previleges Govt. has given to the officers'

In another incident, myself, a Group B officer and a Group A officer were residing in the same building (Type C). We used to travel by same mode and reach office at the sme time. But the Transport being paid was (pre-6thCPC) Rs. 100/- for me, Rs. 400/- and Rs. 800/- for them.

In yet another incident, one day, I , with around 32 years of service and a new recruit (with 3 months ) were walking towards office. We were late by 10 minutes. I was almost running whereas he was leisurely walking and said he will have tea and come. When I pointed out he will be late marked, He said "already we are late (by 10 minutes). So what difference does it make - whether 10 minutes or 1 hour - a late is a late only".

The more you think about these or face these every day in office, the more our blood boils and we tend to get ulcers.

Any way, Life is like that.

Rgds

RK

RKPATHAK
29-04-2011, 09:59 AM
There is no need to boil your blood(.) be roman when in rome

An17115
13-08-2011, 07:54 AM
yes sir,
we have to turn our taste as per the boss. I mean to say BOSS. our system are having bosses not the LEADER. On discovery channel i had seen some mega project construction episode. the the site manager comes by 4:30, Engg comes by 5:00, supervisor by 6:00. they all talk reg the today task in meeting and then at last 8:00 am wroker arrived. By the time all are ready with their task and today plan.
here senior boss comes in last and till that time all have to wait to get to their work. by that time it is 11:00 am. its a mockery to be strict on time and talk of puntuality. puntuality is the tool used in india to harash the people than to improve the productivity. Ha ha ha.

R K Rao
19-08-2011, 10:21 PM
yes sir,
we have to turn our taste as per the boss. I mean to say BOSS. our system are having bosses not the LEADER. On discovery channel i had seen some mega project construction episode. the the site manager comes by 4:30, Engg comes by 5:00, supervisor by 6:00. they all talk reg the today task in meeting and then at last 8:00 am wroker arrived. By the time all are ready with their task and today plan.
here senior boss comes in last and till that time all have to wait to get to their work. by that time it is 11:00 am. its a mockery to be strict on time and talk of puntuality. puntuality is the tool used in india to harash the people than to improve the productivity. Ha ha ha.

Mr AN,

Have you noticed one more thing (which I have, several times at various places) - While cleaning a Nullah or a Railway Track or Digging a hole (may be for pipe / cable laying), I have seen one or two people working and about 7-8 people standing around and whiling away their time (and I think most of the time they are the senior employees/ supervisors).


----- As regards to Mr. Pathak's advice not to let our blood boil and be a roman while in rome,

Most respectfully, I submit, Sir, that if this was the case, there would not have been Anna Hazare's but we would be simplying keep tolerating the bribe etc. Is this we all want?

veraich
23-08-2011, 09:46 PM
But this is where we are. The rate of output is controlled by the slowest step.
I read this principle in XI Redox reaction that 'Rate of reaction is determined by the slowest step'
Now i see it as every day sciences.
This is frustration
h

prasannakumar
27-08-2011, 09:36 PM
I have posted this message received an year back from one of my relatives in the humour section. As I thought this would be appropriate here also, I am repeating this.

If a barber makes a mistake, It's a new style
If a driver makes a mistake, It is a New Path
If an engineer makes a mistake, It is a new venture
If parents makes a mistake, It is a new generation
If a scientist makes a mistake, It is a new invention
If a tailor makes a mistake, It is a new fashion
If a teacher makes a mistake, It is a new theory
If our boss makes a mistake, It is a New idea
If an employee makes a mistake, It is a Mistake Only

Prasanna Kumar

veraich
27-08-2011, 10:43 PM
No answers left Sir.
I can only add its natural law.

Regards
Hardeep

m2k_kastoor
13-11-2011, 07:58 PM
I have posted this message received an year back from one of my relatives in the humour section. As I thought this would be appropriate here also, I am repeating this.

If a barber makes a mistake, It's a new style
If a driver makes a mistake, It is a New Path
If an engineer makes a mistake, It is a new venture
If parents makes a mistake, It is a new generation
If a scientist makes a mistake, It is a new invention
If a tailor makes a mistake, It is a new fashion
If a teacher makes a mistake, It is a new theory
If our boss makes a mistake, It is a New idea
If an employee makes a mistake, It is a Mistake Only

Prasanna Kumar

Discussion started on a ground and how beautifully turned around about laws, mistakes, privilege, etc. Well quite a healthy and resourceful discussion, really nice to see difference of opinions for a most common issue in Govt. jobs...

madhuelakkat
20-11-2011, 09:00 PM
It is true. And, later it will become "misconduct" in charge sheet under the CCS(CCA) Rules though it cannot be termed so as per some judicial pronouncements.

rsk11584
23-11-2011, 06:47 AM
in our office our director comes at 08.45 am well before the time of 09.00 am and certain staff come by 09.05 and 09.10 we have given 10 mins relaxation i live 20 kms away from office still come at 08.30 - 08.45 as i have to travel a lot another staff one lady lives just 2 kms still she daily comes by 09.10 and leaves sharp at 5.30 pm even without signing attendance register, our director n admin officer dont take any action telling the lady is married and has kids, that is another mentality if you are married you are excused if you are bachelor you are expected to stay late this is mentality of our director. Anyways different staff have different view and now technology has greatly improved and we are in the process of procuring fingerprint / card based attendance system so that all are required to come before time,, and even if any officer is absent let all not worry, we have technology and if we dont use it, then we are still living in stone age. Usually in such offices where section officer / HOD notes attendance it is observed if the HOD / SEction officer takes planned leave next day almost all come late, leisurely but with technology there cannot be any escape.

vgsingh
24-11-2011, 10:55 AM
Thanks for starting a discussion on very important topic of ‘ATTENDANCE RULE’. In Delhi almost all Govt departments have installed BBAMS Machines means “Biometric Based Attendance Management System” for recording the attendance of employees. This has seriously affecting all the Govt servants who are living in Delhi & adjoining areas.
In this system for marking attendance you will have to place your finger/thumb on touch screen. The system reads your finger print and identifies you and attendance is marked with an accuracy of 1 second. This has created havoc among all the Govt servants living in Delhi & adjoining areas and is being disliked by almost all the Govt employees of whatever level/rank he or she is.
A detailed discussion on this can be held on this. It is therefore requested to share their views/ experiences/ problems etc
So continue to write here with open mind.
Thanks
VG SINGH

prasannakumar
24-11-2011, 07:25 PM
Thanks for Sanchali for triggering this issue and to all for having contributed to this.

Only government offices have difficulty in adopting new technology like Biometric methods. Almost all companies have this system but government offices have averse feelings because some of us do not have regard to punctuality. While field personnel can escape this citing work outside office/visit fields/sites etc before commencement of office, ministerial staff can not escape from this though reasons for late coming and early leaving is genuine. This could be one of the reasons for so much objections.

Expecting some more reactions.

Regards
Prasanna Kumar

vgsingh
25-11-2011, 10:26 PM
I think you are unaware about the traffic conditions of Delhi and its adjoining area. There is no averse feeling or escaping from the duty. If an officer is struck up in the traffic then his staff is also struck up in the adjacent bus in which they are travelling . Therefore the problem is not personal.
In my friends department the working hours are calculated on a weekly basis. So if there are 5 working days in a week then the total working hours in the weeks comes out to be 5days X 8 hours/days = 40 hours so you have to complete 40 working hours in a week. Since the calculations are done on a weekly basis then working hours have to be compensated by coming office earlier or sitting late in office within that week. Last week my friends working hours are less by just 7 minutes so they deducted his ˝ days CL. How fair is it. You cannot make a building or an aircraft in 7 minutes. When all attentions of a person are on calculating the working hours how well he or she can concentrate on work can well be imagined. This is just one example. Thanks



Thanks for Sanchali for triggering this issue and to all for having contributed to this.

Only government offices have difficulty in adopting new technology like Biometric methods. Almost all companies have this system but government offices have averse feelings because some of us do not have regard to punctuality. While field personnel can escape this citing work outside office/visit fields/sites etc before commencement of office, ministerial staff can not escape from this though reasons for late coming and early leaving is genuine. This could be one of the reasons for so much objections.

Expecting some more reactions.

Regards
Prasanna Kumar

RKPATHAK
26-11-2011, 07:33 PM
How you justify if an employee comes to office on time be remained on his seat whole day and when in office killing his time on internet, email, chatting, etc. On the other hand one habitual late comer but sincere and devoted, Discipline is self generated

vgsingh
26-11-2011, 11:50 PM
Sir I am not justifying an employee who is in regular habit of coming office late without any genuine reason. Discipline is very important character in any profession/job and must be maintained. Habitual late comers and earlier goers must be reprimanded. But the agony is that without looking its practical aspect, laws/rules are implemented. A method that is excellent for one type of organization(private) may not be good for the other(govt). This is my point of view. . Myquestion is that should 7 minutes be given more importance than any employees dedication and devotion to work? In India administrative laws were made during British rule and except some minor changes no major changes were being made in it. Computers with internet connection are almost there in every office but the same pre-independence method of filing, noting, manually movement & recording etc of files are used. Why not all the documentation be digitalized and noting and sending be done online from any location (wireless internet connections are normal now a days and cost effective). This will not only speeds up the work but effectively reduce the use of paper, stationary items ,and manual movement of file from one location to other thereby less damage of documents.. Except some offices others are still reluctant in its use. If any letter is emailed or send electronically then its hard copy is also send which means dual work. Oh Yes, the use of computers in place of typewriters is one major change.
I believe that amount of work done and its quality should be given more importance than sitting there whole day and doing nothing.
I have said more than enough as for now. So I Thanks you for your patient reading.

with regards



How you justify if an employee comes to office on time be remained on his seat whole day and when in office killing his time on internet, email, chatting, etc. On the other hand one habitual late comer but sincere and devoted, Discipline is self generated

shubhamchawhan
06-12-2011, 01:14 PM
habit of attending office in time is good but thing is this that it must not be given much importance. Early coming and late going has never been fruitful when we look upon the productivity. If someone is getting some width by their seniors then no need to increase your BP.

prasannakumar
06-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Sirs,
Every rule has an exception. Coming late by ten minutes is pardonable. Late by an hour occasionally is also acceptable. But habitual late attendance is not pardonable. I think all officers are not that cruel to accept genuine facts for late attendance. Even if we are late for genuine reasons, we should clear the works. After all we are public servants.

Hope this has not offended my fellow g-connectors

Prasanna Kumar

R K Rao
07-12-2011, 08:36 PM
My office timings are from 0900 hrs and the grace period is upto 0910. A person comes around 0920 every day and starts working IMMEDIATELY. There are a few others who come by 0845 hrs but spend their time loitering and gossiping about the current events or happenings in the office/ houses of colleagues etc, till 0945 hrs, EVERY DAY.

Now, which is better?

RK

sangitapassey
07-12-2011, 10:37 PM
Thanks for starting a discussion on very important topic of ‘ATTENDANCE RULE’. In Delhi almost all Govt departments have installed BBAMS Machines means “Biometric Based Attendance Management System” for recording the attendance of employees. This has seriously affecting all the Govt servants who are living in Delhi & adjoining areas.
In this system for marking attendance you will have to place your finger/thumb on touch screen. The system reads your finger print and identifies you and attendance is marked with an accuracy of 1 second. This has created havoc among all the Govt servants living in Delhi & adjoining areas and is being disliked by almost all the Govt employees of whatever level/rank he or she is.
A detailed discussion on this can be held on this. It is therefore requested to share their views/ experiences/ problems etc
So continue to write here with open mind.
Thanks
VG SINGH


Installation of Biometric Attendance Machines in offices troubles the habitual late comers the maximum. Those, who are punctual, are NOT affected by its installation as they in any case are coming on time. However, punctuality is a good habit to develop. Getting late once in a while is much different than being habitual late comer.

BTW how many Delhi Govt. offices are left with functional Biometric Attendance Machines? :)

vgsingh
07-12-2011, 10:58 PM
sir

After reading other members comments it can easily be concluded that:
1. Early coming and late going will not raise the productivity as every attention of a person will be on calculating his or her extra time.
2. A bit of flexibility is to be there in office time.
3. The amount of work done and its quality should be given more importance then attendance.
4. Efficient and in efficient employees are there in every govt department.
BUT
Why the Govt is installing Biometric Based attendance monitoring system in every office?
Since I live in New Delhi we, are facing lot of problems as well as mental stress due to the adoption of this system.
My residence is at a distance of 15 kms from my office. Prior to the installation of Bio metric machines, I used to come to office in a chartered bus which usually drops me at 9:45 – 9:55 AM. (office timing are from 9:30 AM to 6:00 PM. In this bio metric system a grace of 10 minutes is only there, hence if we record our attendance between 9:30 & 9:40 AM it is ok but if at 9:41 AM then we will be considered late by 11 minutes & in order to compensate for this we have to come earlier or sit late in office during that week). But after the installation of Bio metric attendance machines, in order that I may not be late I start coming to office in my own car. Along with the fuel wastage we have to face the stress of the driving in traffic. when we reach our office we got totally exhausted and are unable to start the work immediately. One day I got stuck in a traffic jam as a bus got broke down mid way and blocked the traffic so I reached the office late by 2:15 hours (it usually takes 45 minutes to one hour to reach office at a distance of 15 kms in my own car) . I have to give a half day Casual Leave for being late. There is no provision of any relaxation. If our C.L’s are deducted like this what we will do when for any genuine reasons we have to take leave.
· What is all this?
· What purpose it will serve?
I do not find any increase in productivity .
There a many more practical problems due to forced adaptation of Bio-metric attendance monitoring system.

Thanks for your patient reading