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View Full Version : Illogical - On ACP/MACP 3% Increment + Next Grade Pay but on promotion nothing



Ramnath
19-02-2011, 06:55 PM
After 6th Pay Commission, in the name of creating equality the posts from 5000 to 6500 basic were merged into one and were granted 4200 Grade Pay. On 13.11.2009, 6500 scale persons were given 4600 grade pay.

In many field offices, because of the above, the feeder and promo posts (5000 basic & 5500) respectively remained on same Grade pay of Rs.4200. It is heard in some of the offices, the promotion earned from 5000 to 5500 has been nullified and both the scales have been merged with grant of 4200 Grade pay (Heard that in Railways in Office Ministerial line). But, we see the situation of overlapping of same grade pay of Rs.4200 (as seen in Anamoly Committee Minutes of AIRF site, some technical posts still remain on same grade pay) and Railways have requested for grant of atleast 3% increment on promotion from feeder to Promo cadre having same grade pay. Here, comes the problem.

Now in the old 5000 scale (having 4200 grade pay), if a person gets ACP/MACP, being an alternative/substitute (temporary relief), that itself is able to grant financial benefit of 3% increment + Next Grade pay of 4600 grade pay (without changing the designation). ACP/MACP is not a permanent solution/remedy but that itself is able to grant the benefits mentioned above.

But, when a person (having 4200 grade pay) gets promoted from 5000 scale to 5500 scale, is not given any financial benefit (but here the designation changes and he is vested with more higher responsibilities). In what way it is correct.

As per pay Rules, the minimum benefit on promotion should be Rs.100/- (as per last pay commission) and now 3% increment + Grade pay applicable to promotion post should be given. Since Grade pay remains same for feeder and promo post, no benefit is given But higher responsibilities are given.

In this regard, the latest order of DOPT (also mentioned in Gconnect) which reads under:-

The Department of Personnel and Training (DOP&T), has reiterated that the grant of the benefits under the earlier ACP Scheme or the MACP Scheme is a fall back option in the event of promotions not taking place. It has been impressed that the Cadre structure needs to be reviewed periodically to harmonise the functional needs of the organisation and career progression of employees.

Therefore, the Ministry has advised all the concerned Departments to review the cadre structure in a time bound manner with a view to mitigate problem of stagnation.

For further details, download DOPT http://gconnect.in/pages/circular_page/general-misc/general-others-review-of-cadre-structuring-100211.pdf may be seen.

In some departments (take for example Central Excise) where a feeder cadre has two different lines of promotion. Senior Tax Assistant (4200 grade pay) can be promoted to a post of Dy. Office Supdt. (4200 grade pay - remains unchanged) as well as to the post of Inspector (4600 grade pay). If he opts for promotion as Dy. Office Supdt, no benefit but for Inspector post 4600 grade pay is given (because of order dt.16.11.2009 granting 4600 grade pay).

Restructuring cadre (review) is going on in Central Excise. But, in this exercise also (as per proposal under finalisation), the post of Dy. Office Supdt. (being one of the Promotion post for STA) is still allowed to remain on 4200 grade pay.

There may be many departments like this in our country, I think. As a last resort, quoting the provision of Pay Rules, such department people should resort to legal remedy (if admn. action is not favourable).

I also seek the opinion of esteemed boarders whether such legal action will work out favourably (by quoting the provisions/orders already existing in the books, pay rules, etc.).
Ramnath
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krishnan09
19-02-2011, 07:51 PM
After 6th Pay Commission, in the name of creating equality the posts from 5000 to 6500 basic were merged into one and were granted 4200 Grade Pay. On 13.11.2009, 6500 scale persons were given 4600 grade pay.

In many field offices, because of the above, the feeder and promo posts (5000 basic & 5500) respectively remained on same Grade pay of Rs.4200. It is heard in some of the offices, the promotion earned from 5000 to 5500 has been nullified and both the scales have been merged with grant of 4200 Grade pay (Heard that in Railways in Office Ministerial line). But, we see the situation of overlapping of same grade pay of Rs.4200 (as seen in Anamoly Committee Minutes of AIRF site, some technical posts still remain on same grade pay) and Railways have requested for grant of atleast 3% increment on promotion from feeder to Promo cadre having same grade pay. Here, comes the problem.

Now in the old 5000 scale (having 4200 grade pay), if a person gets ACP/MACP, being an alternative/substitute (temporary relief), that itself is able to grant financial benefit of 3% increment + Next Grade pay of 4600 grade pay (without changing the designation). ACP/MACP is not a permanent solution/remedy but that itself is able to grant the benefits mentioned above.

But, when a person (having 4200 grade pay) gets promoted from 5000 scale to 5500 scale, is not given any financial benefit (but here the designation changes and he is vested with more higher responsibilities). In what way it is correct.

As per pay Rules, the minimum benefit on promotion should be Rs.100/- (as per last pay commission) and now 3% increment + Grade pay applicable to promotion post should be given. Since Grade pay remains same for feeder and promo post, no benefit is given But higher responsibilities are given.

In this regard, the latest order of DOPT (also mentioned in Gconnect) which reads under:-

The Department of Personnel and Training (DOP&T), has reiterated that the grant of the benefits under the earlier ACP Scheme or the MACP Scheme is a fall back option in the event of promotions not taking place. It has been impressed that the Cadre structure needs to be reviewed periodically to harmonise the functional needs of the organisation and career progression of employees.

Therefore, the Ministry has advised all the concerned Departments to review the cadre structure in a time bound manner with a view to mitigate problem of stagnation.

For further details, download DOPT http://gconnect.in/pages/circular_page/general-misc/general-others-review-of-cadre-structuring-100211.pdf may be seen.

In some departments (take for example Central Excise) where a feeder cadre has two different lines of promotion. Senior Tax Assistant (4200 grade pay) can be promoted to a post of Dy. Office Supdt. (4200 grade pay - remains unchanged) as well as to the post of Inspector (4600 grade pay). If he opts for promotion as Dy. Office Supdt, no benefit but for Inspector post 4600 grade pay is given (because of order dt.16.11.2009 granting 4600 grade pay).

Restructuring cadre (review) is going on in Central Excise. But, in this exercise also (as per proposal under finalisation), the post of Dy. Office Supdt. (being one of the Promotion post for STA) is still allowed to remain on 4200 grade pay.

There may be many departments like this in our country, I think. As a last resort, quoting the provision of Pay Rules, such department people should resort to legal remedy (if admn. action is not favourable).

I also seek the opinion of esteemed boarders whether such legal action will work out favourably (by quoting the provisions/orders already existing in the books, pay rules, etc.).
Ramnath

In our case, the pre 5000-8000 and 5500-9000 were given only GP4200 . Those who existed 6500-10,500 on 31.12.2005 only were given GP 4600. Those who got ACP/MACP were given fixation at the time of granting ACP/MACP but categorically said further fixation will be not given at the time of regular promotion. According to government, they have been given financial benefit of promotion with effect from the date of MACP as a personal capacity, but will be allowed to continue the same in the regular promotion with designation change.
What you have stated here is absolutely correct, but we are handicapped for further fixation at the time of regular promotion. Here the main problem is disparity. The 3rd NAC also has included in the agenda about the disparity. As regards the pre 5500-9000 in CSS , they are eleigible for 7450x1.86+4600 whereas in the field office only 5500x1.86+4200 – this is the disparity in fixation and applying of FR. The present attitude of the members of staff side, will not give any effect on the disparity as they attended the meeting without documentary evidence and they were asked once again in the NAC to submit the points if any within 10 days. It is ashamed the union system prevailing here, because during the last 4 years, these people could not make any concrete points by themselves or unable to read the serious issues highlighted at least in the GConnect.
So let us wait for the mercy from the official side.

Ramnath
19-02-2011, 08:29 PM
Mr.Krishnan,
Thank u very much for the quick response. Take Central Excise case as example. A person joins as Tax Assistant (UDC) 2400 gpay. Gets promoted as Sr. Tax Assistant (4200 Grade pay). If he gets ACP/MACP, he gets 4600 grade pay (20 years) for not getting promotion. But if he gets promotion as Dy. Office Supdt (prior to ACP/MACP within 20 years), he does not get any fixation. Since he has got promotion (though financial benefit is NIL), he is deprived of ACP/MACP (2nd one). This is situation is unique. My question is - projecting all these, can I go to Legal forum for remedy. I once again welcome views of our esteemed boarders.
Ramnath
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krishnan09
19-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Mr.Krishnan,
Thank u very much for the quick response. Take Central Excise case as example. A person joins as Tax Assistant (UDC) 2400 gpay. Gets promoted as Sr. Tax Assistant (4200 Grade pay). If he gets ACP/MACP, he gets 4600 grade pay (20 years) for not getting promotion. But if he gets promotion as Dy. Office Supdt (prior to ACP/MACP within 20 years), he does not get any fixation. Since he has got promotion (though financial benefit is NIL), he is deprived of ACP/MACP (2nd one). This is situation is unique. My question is - projecting all these, can I go to Legal forum for remedy. I once again welcome views of our esteemed boarders.
Ramnath

Dear Mr.Ramanath
The DOPT vide OM dated 24.3.2009 directed all the departments to restructure the RR/Service Rules with a view to get timely promotions say within 4 to 6 years. But nobody bothered except the CSS. The union people also lost their sight to read this OM. What u stated is so pathetic being the best democratic country in the world. People have to wait more than 20 years to get an elevation that too after a prolonged struggle. The union should fight for giving regular promotion w.e.f. the date of MACP so that atleast the employees can count their service from the MACP. Though the concept of MACP was to give financial benefit in the asbence of regular promotion, that is not counted for future promotion or future fixation. So when the regular promotion available it should be from the date of effect of MACP or with a provision of further fixation at the time of regular promotion due to higher responsibilities in the higher post.

Further, the Department of Personnel and Training (DOP&T), has reiterated that the grant of the benefits under the earlier ACP Scheme or the MACP Scheme is a fall back option in the event of promotions not taking place. It has been impressed that the Cadre structure needs to be reviewed periodically to harmonise the functional needs of the organisation and career progression of employees.

Therefore, the Ministry has advised all the concerned Departments to review the cadre structure in a time bound manner with a view to mitigate problem of stagnation. For further details, download DOPT O.M. No. 35034/9/2010-Estt (D) dated 10.02.2011

I believe that some one should take it in the right spirit and file the case in the appropriate judicial forum against the tactics being applied by official side and union side.

Victor
20-02-2011, 06:48 PM
This is an anomaly and needs to be resolved by DOPT. Logically, the cadre review should take into account such mergers. However, if promotions between same Grade Pay becomes inescapable, then some minimum relief has to be given to the employee concerned. In any case, FR 22 and CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 have to be reconciled by DOPT sooner or later.

Victor

Ramnath
20-02-2011, 08:57 PM
Thank u Mr.Victor for your valuable opinion/comments. In my opinion, Govt. has got trapped because of its own terms (here i mean, ACP (remainng in same post) itself grants 3% inc + next grade pay but promotion (involves change of post with higher responsbilities) does not give such). And restructure/review has not taken place either in many depts. or in some like mine (Central Excise Dept) even though restructure is proposed, it has not taken care of these points. Hence, legally there is a strong chance for winning the case. Thank u once again.
Ramnath
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sundarar
21-02-2011, 07:31 AM
As regards the pre 5500-9000 in CSS , they are eleigible for 7450x1.86+4600 whereas in the field office only 5500x1.86+4200 – this is the disparity in fixation and applying of FR.

Dear Shri Krishnanji, Thanks for detailed discussion in this thread on ACP/MACP.

I have a doubt with regard to the above quoted. Even in the DOPT Order dated 7.1.2011, as on 1.1.2006, for those who got stepping up of pay on the next day, it was 5500 x 1.86 only as on 1.1.2006 but the GP however was Rs.4600.

In case any one got 7450 x 1.86 on 1.1.2006 with GP Rs.4600 on 1.1.2006 itself, though they were not holding the pre-revised scale of 7450-11500 actually prior to that date, the related information will be more useful. By virtue of replacement scale of 7450-11500 for those who were holding 6500-10500 prior to 1.1.2006, in those case also, it was 6500 x 1.86 + GP Rs.4600.

Actually, for CSS as well as field Office - both shall be eligible for same GP of Rs.4600 and the pay in pb shall be 7450 x 1.86, once the GP corresponds with a particular pre-revised scale. It is the GP that determines the actual grade and its pre-revised scale.

In field offices, whether posts carrying 6500-10500 still there as next higher grade to those having 5500-9000? I am not aware.

However, representations are being sent by some known circle citing
the DOPT Order dated 7.1.2011.

dileepade
21-02-2011, 09:40 AM
sir,,
i need some help in the TA/DA matters.. so i am sending an query about this..
sir, what are the rules for the transportation allowances if the government officer is on temporary duty out of station for more than 180 days..
if u have got some references ( MOs) please send it across..

thanks
dileepade@rediffmail.com

krishnan09
22-02-2011, 09:13 PM
Dear Shri Krishnanji, Thanks for detailed discussion in this thread on ACP/MACP.

I have a doubt with regard to the above quoted. Even in the DOPT Order dated 7.1.2011, as on 1.1.2006, for those who got stepping up of pay on the next day, it was 5500 x 1.86 only as on 1.1.2006 but the GP however was Rs.4600.

In case any one got 7450 x 1.86 on 1.1.2006 with GP Rs.4600 on 1.1.2006 itself, though they were not holding the pre-revised scale of 7450-11500 actually prior to that date, the related information will be more useful. By virtue of replacement scale of 7450-11500 for those who were holding 6500-10500 prior to 1.1.2006, in those case also, it was 6500 x 1.86 + GP Rs.4600.

Actually, for CSS as well as field Office - both shall be eligible for same GP of Rs.4600 and the pay in pb shall be 7450 x 1.86, once the GP corresponds with a particular pre-revised scale. It is the GP that determines the actual grade and its pre-revised scale.

In field offices, whether posts carrying 6500-10500 still there as next higher grade to those having 5500-9000? I am not aware.

However, representations are being sent by some known circle citing
the DOPT Order dated 7.1.2011.

Dear Mr.Sundararji,
Since the pre-revised 5500-9000 is given 7450-11,500 with fixation at the minimum plus GP4600, the pre-revised 6500-10,500 must be given 7500-12,000 with fixation at the minimum plus gP4800 as was given to cSS Section Officer. All government servants should be given NFS when they complete 4 years. The main hurdle is not the government, but the leaders because they have already come to a conclusion not to give such equal benefits to the employees in the field office. Their performance in the NAC reveals their mentality. They need our continued support for their survival and stage performance. So this kind of attitude of the leaders are to be stoped forthwith at any cost. There must be some alternative to fight for demo and not for craziness. If there is a central government employee either in cSS or outside in any State, their basic remenuration must be common without praticing discrimination among them for petty reasons.

sundarar
23-02-2011, 07:54 AM
Dear Mr.Sundararji,
Since the pre-revised 5500-9000 is given 7450-11,500 with fixation at the minimum plus GP4600, the pre-revised 6500-10,500 must be given 7500-12,000 with fixation at the minimum plus gP4800 as was given to cSS Section Officer.

Dear Shri Krishnanji,

I think in some departments, where 7500-12000 is the next higher grade to 6500-10500 particularly in the Steno grade, on such promotion, they got GP of Rs.4800.

However, my anxiety is about the fixation of minimum pay in the pay band either in r/o 6500-10500 or in r/o 7450-11500 or in r/o 7500-12000 although the GP Rs.4200, 4600 and 4800 respectively is given.

The Clarification No.6 of DOE OM dated 13.9.2008 - Procedure for placing employees in upgraded scales in case of merger of scales/upgradations recommended by the Sixth CPC:

(i) Where all posts in one or more pre-revised scales are merged with a higher pre-revised scale and given a common replacement scale/grade pay, the suitability of the incumbents need not be assessed for granting them the higher replacement scale/grade pay and the incumbents will automatically be granted the replacement pay scale/grade pay recommended by the Commission. THEIR PAY WILL BE FIXED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FITMENT TABLE ANNEXED TO THIS DEPT.'S OM DATED 30.8.2008.

(ii) Similarly in the cae of upgradations recommended by the Pay Commission (ie) where all posts in a particular grade have been granted a higher replacement pay scale/grade pay, the suitabilityof the incumbents need not be assessed for granting them the higher replacement scale/grade pay. The incumbents will automatically be granted the replacement scale/gp recommended by the Commission. THEIR PAY IN THE PAY BAND WILL BE FIXED WITH REFERENCE TO THE FITMENT TABLE CORRESPONDING TO PRE-REVISED PAY SCALE (Whether pre-merged or post-merged pre-revised pay scale? it is not clear.....). HOWEVER, THE GP CORRESPONDING TO THE UPGRADED POST WILL BE GRANTED.

From (ii) above, it is understood that only GP corresponding to the upgraded post/scale and pay in the pay band corresponding to upgraded post/scale will be given(As has been done in DOPT OM dated 7.1.2011 for CSS Assistants as on 1.1.2006)

From (i) above, it is not understood whether both GP as well as pay in the pay band will be corresponding to the replaced higher scale.

Unless and until the above contentions are clarified sufficiently,

then the following is my understanding:
In the case of 5000, 5500 which have been replaced with a higher scale 6500, the GP Rs.4200 has been given. ie. 40% of max. of higher pre-revised scale, otherwise the GP shall be 3200, 3600, for the two merged scales 5000, 5500. At the same time, it is maintained that the existing 6500 has been upgraded to 7450 and the GP corresponding to 7450 is given.

Out of all these, the minimum pay in the pay band either in the case of merger or in the case of upgradation, applicable to post-merged higher scale or post-replaced scale is not ensured. That is where, I am reiterating again and again that the pay in the pay band corresponding to upgraded/replaced scale shall be made applicable.
In that case for all those in 5000 and 5500, the min. pay in pb shall be 6500 x 1.86
(The 6500 has become the merged higher scale for 5000 and 5500, while existing 6500 has got upgraded to 7450 or 7500 as the case may be)
Similarly for 7450 or 7500 the min. pay in pb shall be 7450 x 1.86 or 7500 x 1.86 either on 1.1.2006 or afterwards when the employee is promoted to such a post-merged higher scale or post-replaced higher scale.

If there exists a minimum pay in the pay band the same shall be made applicable to post-merged/post-replaced higher scale too and granting only GP applicable to such higher grades alone are not judicious decision.

As regards 7500-12000 with GP of Rs.4800 indicated in your post, you may like to take up with your organisation citing that there are some depts. which have internally restructured. DOPT has already issued instructions for review of cadre restructuring.

Victor
23-02-2011, 11:16 AM
Assistants/PAs were earlier drawing the pay scale of Rs. 5500-9000.

On 15.9.2006, the pay scale of Assistants/PAs of CSS/CSSS was upgraded to 6500-10500.

The CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 prescribed GP 4200 to the pre-revised scales of 5000-8000, 5500-9000, 6500-6900, 6500-10500. A proviso was also made that in case merger of posts (due to merger of these scales) was not feasible on functional grounds, then the 6500-10500 scale be upgraded/merged with 7450-11500 in consultation with Department of Expenditure, Ministry of Finance.

The D/o Expenditure received a "large number of references" proposing upgradation of the posts which were in the pre-revised scale of 6500-10500. Probably to make things simple, MOF issued a blanket OM dated 13/9/2009 by which all posts which existed in the pre-revised scale of 6500-10500 as on 1/1/2006, were granted GP 4600 corresponding to the pre-revised scale of 7450-11500.

This left out the Assistants/PAs of CSS as they were in the pre-revised scale of 5500-9000 as on 1/1/2006. Subsequently, the MOF vide OM dated 16/9/2008 "decided to extend the pay structure of grade pay of Rs. 4600" to Assistants belonging to CSS, Armed Forces Hqr. Service, IFS "B" and Railway Board Secretariat Service and Personal Assistants in the counterpart Stenographer Services, w.e.f. 1/1/2006.

The pay fixation in the case of upgradations has to be done in accordance with OM dated 13/9/2008 and 13/10/2008. Accordingly, the fitment table of the LOWER pre-revised table ONLY is to be used to which the GP of the HIGHER pre-revised scale is to be added as on 1/1/2006.

However, the brilliant chaps at the D/o Expenditure came out with an equally brilliant idea and it was clarified by MOF that in the case of Assistants/PAs who were "promoted" between 1/1/2006 and 31/8/2008 their pay will be fixed w.r.t the fitment table of the upgraded prevised scale i.e. 7450-11500. Thus the Assistants/PAs who were promoted between 1/1/2006 and 31/8/2008 have got pay fixation at Rs. 13,860 + GP 4600 w.e.f. date of promotion.
This includes one Shri GM Kabui the great. Consequently, the DOPT has granted the benefit of Stepping up of Pay to all the senior Assistants/PAs of CSS/CSSS who were promoted before 1/1/2006.

This benefit was subsequently extended to ACP cases according to the pay fixation orders issued by the D/o Expenditure and D/o Economic Affairs in r/o their Stenographers Gr.D. However, I am not sure whether Stepping up was done in case of UDCs/Stenos who got ACP before 1/1/2006.

The clarification issued by MOF and circulated by DOPT vide OM dated 22/12/2010 though absurd and illogical is now a reality. This has created serious anomalies which could be very difficult to resolve (I had also raised this issue in a separate post entitled "Stepping up of Pay"). This could also lead to court cases if not resolved soon.

It is also erroneous to say that the scale of 5000-8000 and 5500-9000 have been upgraded to 7450-11500 and hence they are entitled to pay fixation at Rs. 13,860 + GP 4600.

Comments are welcome.

Victor

sundarar
23-02-2011, 06:47 PM
The pay fixation in the case of upgradations has to be done in accordance with OM dated 13/9/2008 and 13/10/2008. Accordingly, the fitment table of the LOWER pre-revised table ONLY is to be used to which the GP of the HIGHER pre-revised scale is to be added as on 1/1/2006.

Comments are welcome.

Victor

Thanks to Shri Victorji for a detailed input. For discussion purpose and with a hope ultimately out of these discussions we could be able to assist the Associations in a better way to present the anomaly for its redressal before the NAC, the following are submitted.

The Stenographers whose previous pay scale 1400-2600 was replaced with a higher pay scale of Rs.1640-2900 w.e.f. 1.1.1986 (may be after the verdict in their favour in their favour in the year 1997/1998), who were drawing Rs.1520 got their revised pay re-fixed at Rs.1640, the bottom of the replaced scale w.e.f. 1.1.1986.

From the portion quoted from Shri Victorji's post, it is understood that it involved Clarification No.6 (ii) of the DOE OM dated 13.9.2008. I am interested to know which are the cases falling under Clarification No.6 (i).

As far as Shri Kabui's case is concerned, at present, I understand from the available inputs, that he retained his pre-revised scale till he get promotion on 2.1.2006 and got promoted to the scale 7450-11500 and the pay fixed on promotion might be Rs.7450 and on exercise of option to switch over to revised structure on promotion, his pay fixed on promotion 7450 got multiplied by 1.86 has become 13860. On 1.1.2006, he did not get this amount, but only on 2.1.2006 after promotion, and by virtue of retaining the pre-revised scale till promotion, this benefit he would have got. How he got exactly the promotion on 2nd January itself, let us forget for sometime. The Seniors of Shri Kabui got their pay stepped up on par with Shri Kabui on 2.1.2006.

Suppose, Shri Kabui got promotion on any day after 2.1.2006, for example on 2.1.2008,
then also, if he had retained his pre-revised scale till that promotion, he would have got 7450 x 1.86 =13860, and the seniors who were drawing less than that amount as on 2.1.2008, would have got the similar benefit of stepping up, as in the case of 2.1.2006.

Thus, from my point of view Shri Kabui's case is not significant.

As I indicated the case of Stenographers' replacement scale of 1640-2900, it is the bottom stage of the replaced higher scale that shall be ensured if the pay being drawn in the pre-replaced scale happens to be lesser than that bottom stage. IN THE REVISED STRUCTURE TOO, PAY IN THE PAY BAND CORRESPONDING TO BOTTOM STAGE OF THE REPLACED HIGHER SCALE SHALL BE ENSURED WHEN GP CORRESPONDS WITH SUCH A REPLACED HIGHER SCALE. - The `pay band' vs `band pay' aspect might be the reason.

Because the definition part of the term `Pay' /`Basic Pay' cannot totally ignore the replaced/merged higher scale particularly when such merger/replacement has taken place prior to switching over to revised structure on 1.1.2006 itself. May be the individual would not have actually held such a pre-revised merged/replaced higher scale just before switching over to revised structure on 1.1.2006, but he has to get the benefit out of it in toto and not partially to the extent of GP alone.

As such, the seniors whose pay have been stepped up on 2.1.2006 is not at all necessary, as by virtue of a GP of Rs.4600 on 1.1.2006, their pre-revised scale is supposed to be 7450 and so the pay in the pay band too corresponding to such a 7450.

Same is the case of 5000, 5500 and 6500. When GP Rs.4200 is allowed, pay in the pay band corresponding to 6500, ie. 6500 x 1.86 could not be denied.

But, having denied without realising that every pre-revised scale bottom stage has its corresponding minimum pay in the pay band in the revised structure, now it is in the hands of Staff Side to ensure justice through appropriate presentation of the case.

Clarification 6 of DOE OM dated 13.9.2008 may have to be re-clarified duly taking into account the definition part of Pay in the Pay band.

Apart from the above, as already we discussed about the High Court, Delhi Judgment dated 7.9.2010 reg. one cadre one pay, the post-2006 promotees and post-2006 recruitees cannot have difference in pay fixation, one with 3% increment over pre-promoted pay and the other with a fixed pay.

For all practical purposes, it is only Minimum Pay in the Pay Band corresponding to bottom stage of a pre-revised scale, pre-revised merged higher scale, pre-revised replaced higher scale only can solve the issue for fixation of pay on 1.1.2006 in the revised structure for existing employees, for fixation of pay on promotion after 1.1.2006 and for the Direct Recruits of post-2006 from their respective events..

These are my views. As Shri Victorji has suggested to offer comments, we all can discuss this issue at length so as to enable a common understanding.


With the same analogy, it is unjustified if only the fitment table of lower scale to be used and GP of higher scale to be added particularly when the corresponding pre-revised scale happens to be one for all purposes. Even at a future date, if a question is raised what was the pre-revised scale as on 1.1.2006, we cannot say two different pre-revised scales.

Moreover, if we read the portion of Clarification 6 (i) `the incumbents will automatically be granted the replacement pay scale/grade pay recommended by the Commission. THEIR PAY WILL BE FIXED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FITMENT TABLE ANNEXED TO THIS DEPT.'S OM DATED 30.8.2008'. - Here, if it is talking of scales merged, there is no clarity that the pay will have to be fixed in accordance with Fitment Table of merged higher scale or pre-merged lower scale?

sundarar
26-02-2011, 07:03 PM
Many of our friends might have seen the contents DOE clarification order dated 27.1.2010 regarding fixation of pay relating to Assistants.In response to clarification sought by Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas, although I have seen just now only.

In brief, it is clarified therein that in the cases of upgradation of posts as a result of 6CPC recommendations the fitment table attached with O.M.No: 1/1/2008-IC dated 30.08.2008, corresponding to the pre-revised scale is to be used for the purpose of determination of revised pay in the pay band. To the pay in the pay band determined the grade pay corresponding to to the upgraded post is to be added. Accordingly the revised pay of Assistants/PAs as on 1.1.2006 is to be fixed using the fitment table for the pre-revised scale of Rs.5500-9000 and the pay in the pay band so determined, grade pay of Rs.4600 is to be added.

It is also clarified by DOPT that in the case of Assistants/PAs who are promoted after 1.1.2006 and who have opted to switch over to the revised pay structure w.e.f the date of their promotion as Assistant/PA, their pay will be fixed with reference to the fitment table of the corresponding to the pre-revised scale of Rs.7450-11500. However, they shall not be entitled to any arrears of pay w.e.f 1.1.2006 till the date of their option.

Thus, the issue exists as an anomaly, and needs full attention to resolve the same.
As said already, in the case of Sr. Stenographers w.e.f. 1.1.1986, when the replacement scale of Rs.1640-2900 was given, the bottom stage of the replaced scale was allowed.
Similarly, in the case of upgraded scale that entail a GP of Rs.4600 shall have its corresponding pay in the pay band. However, since the Clarification No.6(ii) of OM dated 13.9.2008 is again and again stressed upon in r/o upgraded scale pay fixation w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the matter is required to be taken up at appropriate levels, for ensuring the purpose of introduction of band based pay structure.

susant270774
03-03-2011, 02:35 PM
Many of our friends might have seen the contents DOE clarification order dated 27.1.2010 regarding fixation of pay relating to Assistants.In response to clarification sought by Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas, although I have seen just now only.

In brief, it is clarified therein that in the cases of upgradation of posts as a result of 6CPC recommendations the fitment table attached with O.M.No: 1/1/2008-IC dated 30.08.2008, corresponding to the pre-revised scale is to be used for the purpose of determination of revised pay in the pay band. To the pay in the pay band determined the grade pay corresponding to to the upgraded post is to be added. Accordingly the revised pay of Assistants/PAs as on 1.1.2006 is to be fixed using the fitment table for the pre-revised scale of Rs.5500-9000 and the pay in the pay band so determined, grade pay of Rs.4600 is to be added.

It is also clarified by DOPT that in the case of Assistants/PAs who are promoted after 1.1.2006 and who have opted to switch over to the revised pay structure w.e.f the date of their promotion as Assistant/PA, their pay will be fixed with reference to the fitment table of the corresponding to the pre-revised scale of Rs.7450-11500. However, they shall not be entitled to any arrears of pay w.e.f 1.1.2006 till the date of their option.

Thus, the issue exists as an anomaly, and needs full attention to resolve the same.
As said already, in the case of Sr. Stenographers w.e.f. 1.1.1986, when the replacement scale of Rs.1640-2900 was given, the bottom stage of the replaced scale was allowed.
Similarly, in the case of upgraded scale that entail a GP of Rs.4600 shall have its corresponding pay in the pay band. However, since the Clarification No.6(ii) of OM dated 13.9.2008 is again and again stressed upon in r/o upgraded scale pay fixation w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the matter is required to be taken up at appropriate levels, for ensuring the purpose of introduction of band based pay structure.


Sundara ji if you have clarification of DOE to clarification sought by Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas then kindly send me by mail to email address susant270774@gmail.com as MOF does not want to provide it as per my RTI application . This will help to fight this dicrimation of fixation to other department . Please send me the clarification

susant270774
03-03-2011, 02:38 PM
Sundara ji if you have clarification of DOE to clarification sought by Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas then kindly send me by mail to email address susant270774@gmail.com as MOF does not want to provide it as per my RTI application . This will help to fight this dicrimation of fixation to other department . Please send me the clarification
Sundara ji if you have clarification of DOE to clarification sought by Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas then kindly send me by mail to email address susant27071974@gmail.com (susant270774@gmail.com) as MOF does not want to provide it as per my RTI application . This will help to fight this dicrimation of fixation to other department . Please send me the clarification

sundarar
03-03-2011, 10:09 PM
MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND AS APPLICABLE TO GRADE PAY PRESCRIBED

Sundara ji This will help to fight this dicrimation of fixation to other department . Please send me the clarification
(Dear Shri Susantji
There is some error in the mail id, it appears. Because, in other thread also, the last two digit of the year 1974 was given)

Before coming to the instant subject, I prefer to reproduce some extracts as given below from today's post of our Respected Shri VNji in the `Injustice Thread' - Pensioners, for information.
"A STOP COULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO THIS "MISTAKE/ ERROR" IF THE EMPLOYEES IN SERVICE (WOULD BE PENSIONERS) HAD ACTED CONSCIOUSLY AND PUT "NOTES IN FILES' WITH ALACRITY AND CONVICTION. IT SHALL BE REMEMBERED THAT NOTES PUT BY A LOWER OFFICIAL OF DOPW INTRODUCING THE EXPRESSION "IRRESPECTIVE OF PRE-REVISED PAY SCALES" IN A CLARIFICATION DRAFT FOR THE OM DT 3RD OCT 2008 LED TO THE DISASTROUS OUTCOME OF "SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCED PENSIONS" FOR MANY PRE 2006 PENSIONERS ( SOME ARE AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES / MANY HAVE NO MEANS TO KNOW/ OTHERS HAVE IGNORED/ MANY DO NOT HAVE MEANS TO FIGHT!). SUCH "NEGATIVE" ACTIONS BY "RESPOSIBLE LOWER OFFICIALS" IN SERVICE LEAD TO GRAVE INJUSTICES AND LIMITLESS LITIGATIONS. "SERVING EMPLOYEES' MUST NOT ALLOW THESE TYPE OF ACTIONS. THE UNIONS/ ASSOCIATIONS/ FEDERATIONS MUST BE CONSCIOUS OF SUCH ACTIONS!.

SUBSEQUENTLY ALSO, THE EMPLOYEES ASSOCIATIONS/ FEDERATIONS DID NOT/ HAVE NOT ACTED "FORCEFULLY" TO RECTIFY THE MISDIRECTED CLARIFICATION TO UNDO THE INJUSTICE!

ELITE CADRES HAVE TRIED TO "ENCASH" THE "PENSION BUDGET" OF A FEW TO "GET A HIGHER PAY PACKAGE AND HIGHER PENSION" TO THE TUNE OF 228 CRORES AT THE MINIMUM!

Now it is left to the old helpless pensioners to fight the issue to undo the INJUSTICE, by moving heaven and earth and then knock at the portals of justice for remedy!.

FEW MILITARY PENSIONERS (RTD LT CDRS/ MAJOR/ SQDRN LDRS) TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO CONSULT US AND GET A CORRECT JUDGMENT IN THE AFT PR BENCH DELHI/ CHANDIGARH WITHIN A SHORT SPELL OF 3 TO 5 MONTHS.THERE ARE 3 FAVOURABLE JUDGMENTS ON 16 OAS ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED IN EARLIER POSTINGS. THESE JUDGMENTS HAVE "DEFINED" THE CORRECT "MINIMUM OF THE PAY IN THE PAY BAND" FOR PRE 2006 PENSIONERS AND HAVE POINTED OUT THE STANDING RELEVANCE OF THE DOPPW'S OM DTD 17TH DEC 1998 WHERE PRESIDENTIAL SANCTION HAD BEEN OBTAINED TO CONVEY WHAT IS THE PRESICE "MINIMUM OF THE PAY" FOR REVISING THE PENSIONS TO GIVE A "MODIFIED PARITY" AFTER THE 5CPC "MISADVENTURES' OF THE AUTHORITIES.

I find still a few S21-23 employees are vascillating to go to CAT to seek justice for not including them in PB 4- agenuine grievance . Pre 2006 pensioners in such scales are also affected. AFT judgments cited earlier pertain to such pension revision disparities only. They shd also get together and fight for justice.

ASSOCIATIONS/ FEDERATIONS MUST BE STRONGLY URGED TO TAKE UP THEIR CASES IN THE last meeting of the NAC BEFORE 31ST MAR 2011, eventhough the NAC may not be responsive. AT BLEAST THE PROTEST MUST BE RECORDED WITH FORCE..

ABOVE ARE THE FEELINGS/ REACTIONS OF MANY OLD PENSIONERS/ FAMILY PENSIONERS WHICH I HAVE "FAITHFULLY" CONVEYED HERE WITHOUT DEMEANING ANY "AUTHRORITIES' WHO ARE CAPABLE OF UNDOING THE INJUSTICE, IF THEIR CONSCIENCE GUIDES THEM .
TO ACT IN A JUST MANNER"
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Thus, the root cause of the problem being faced owing to introduction of band based fixation of pay/pension, lies on the MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND CORRESPONDING TO A SINGLE PRE-REVISED SCALE, to put it in other words,
BOTTOM STAGE OF THE REVISED SCALE, and in the instant case, bottom stage of the upgraded scale in the revised structure.

TO SAY IN CLEAR TERMS: MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND AS APPLICABLE TO THE GRADE PAY PRESCRIBED

What is the purpose of upgrading the scale on 1.1.2006 from 6500 to 7450. There must be some genuine purpose and reason. In that case, the revision also shall correspondingly match the bottom of the upgraded scale. What is the justification for denial?

Whether this matter is treated as an anomaly, and accordingly taken up with the NAC?

The problem therefore lies in the cases like yours, promotees of post-2006 for fixation of pay on promotion, stepping up of post-2006 promotees on par with direct recruits in case the pay in the pay band of a DR is higher, Since the Pay Band Journey does not take off
towards pay in the pay band, so the latter's minimum too.

A policy decision with due analysis/review followed by a Corrigendum will only put all band based anomalies at rest. Still time is there to take up with the NAC, who has invited alternate suggestions, agenda items, etc. from the Staff Side. The AFT has already
gave its verdict in favour of the pensioners by relying on the definition part - with regard to Pay in the Pay band that was defined in CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 as Pay drawn in the Running Pay Band.

Once the Stepping up Rules provision - ie. Note 10 under Rule 7 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008 is common to all Central Govt. employees, the same shall be applied to similarly placed employees of Central Govt. irrespective of the department in which they have been working. That way, all those who were drawing a minimum of Rs.5500 as on 1.1.2006 in the pre-merged scale of 5500-9000 in the Steno Cadre shall be eligible to be treated on par with their counterparts covered under DOE OM dated 7.1.2011 and any such OMs of DOPT.

Thanks for the opportunity. Best wishes.

vnatarajan
04-03-2011, 08:27 AM
Dear Shri SUNDARAR,

YOUR LAST PARAGRAPH IS VERY APPROPRIATE.

PURPOSE OF INTRODUCTION OF PAY BANDS IS WELL EXPLAINED.

I FIND THE CONCEPT IS BEING VITIATED ONLY BECAUSE OF NOT ADOPTING THE PROPER "MINIMUM PAY IN THE PAY BAND AS APPLICABLE TO THE GRADE PAY PRESCRIBED" AS EXPLAINED VERY WELL IN YOUR POST.

I hope - the analyses- relevant for both employees and pensioners are realised by the authorities before it is too late, so that litigations do not multiply.

NAC MUST BE APPRISED BY ASSOCIATIONS/ UNIONS/ FEDERATIONS AT ONCE ON THIS ASPECT before it is late- before 31st March 2011.

vnatarajan