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yenyem
28-09-2008, 12:42 PM
As per 6th pc recommendations accepted by the Govt, with modifications,in case of all past pensioners,the fixation of pension shall be based on a multification factor of 1.86 plus a fitment benefit of 40% of the basic pension.

This formula is said to be consistent with fitment benefit being allowed in case of the existing employees.

For serving employees, basic pay is increased by a factor of 1.86 and the amount arrived at is rounded off to the next 10 rupee and appropriate Grade Pay is added as fitment benefit.This grade pay is equal to 40-41 per cent of the maximum pay of the pre-revised grade of the employee.In some cases this works out to more than 41 per cent(for grade S-9 it is 52.5 per cent and for S-10 it is 46.66 per cent)

For pensioners, while applying the 1.86 factor, the multiplied amount is
rounded off to the next rupee and not to the next 10 rupee.As fitment benefit also only40 per cent of the basic pension is added instead of half of the corresponding grade pay, as done in the case of serving employees.

For determination of minimum pension/family pension, the minimum of the
Pay Band and Grade Pay is taken into account.

Not considering half of the grade pay, for fitment benefit for past pensioners, is a great injustice and needs to be rectified by the Govt.

vnatarajan
20-10-2008, 08:47 AM
Dear Yenyem.

I fully endorse your views. Elsewhere in a thread started by me entitled "Injustice to Pre-2005 pensioners ..... etc", in one of the postings, I have given examples of how the effect(s) of 40% fitment / grade pay/ or parts of them get neutralised/ eroded due to the bunching effect in some scales (S 30/S 29 and even lower ones!).

Your last paragraph is absolutely logical and the DoP/PW must review the points raised and explain by proper demonstration how the benefits of addition of Grade Pay is being ensured for past pensioners. Simply issuing erroneous Corrigendums have no meaning!

vnatarajan.

G.Ramdas
13-03-2009, 10:08 PM
As per 6th pc recommendations accepted by the Govt, with modifications,in case of all past pensioners,the fixation of pension shall be based on a multification factor of 1.86 plus a fitment benefit of 40% of the basic pension.

This formula is said to be consistent with fitment benefit being allowed in case of the existing employees.

For serving employees, basic pay is increased by a factor of 1.86 and the amount arrived at is rounded off to the next 10 rupee and appropriate Grade Pay is added as fitment benefit.This grade pay is equal to 40-41 per cent of the maximum pay of the pre-revised grade of the employee.In some cases this works out to more than 41 per cent(for grade S-9 it is 52.5 per cent and for S-10 it is 46.66 per cent)

For pensioners, while applying the 1.86 factor, the multiplied amount is
rounded off to the next rupee and not to the next 10 rupee.As fitment benefit also only40 per cent of the basic pension is added instead of half of the corresponding grade pay, as done in the case of serving employees.

For determination of minimum pension/family pension, the minimum of the
Pay Band and Grade Pay is taken into account.

Not considering half of the grade pay, for fitment benefit for past pensioners, is a great injustice and needs to be rectified by the Govt.

The above post as well as the subsequent one by Sh.VN need to be discussed seriously, in the present context, when DP&PW has arbitrarily modified the original recommendation in para 4.2. With the modification, many pensioners do not get any benefit of the 50% of emoluments(even at the minimum of the repacement scale) as pension, as enshrined in the 6CPC recommendation.

Let us have a relook at the various aspects of the issue:
Grade Pay in Pension

1 Sixth CPC Recommendations
Para 1.2.3 of the 6CPC Report reads as under:
“ Fitment benefit
The Commission is recommending a new structure of running pay bands and grade pay. In the structure, grade pay has been normally taken at 40% of the maximum of the pre-revised pay scale. Grade pay is, therefore, in the nature of fitment benefit.”

As far as pensioners are concerned the recommendation of the commission at Para 5.1.47 of the Report is under:

“However, in order to maintain the existing modified parity between present and future retirees, it will be necessary to allow the same fitment benefit as is being recommended for the existing Government employees. The commission, accordingly, recommends that all past pensioners should be allowed fitment benefit equal to 40% of the pension excluding the effect of merger of 50% dearness allowance/ dearness relief as pension (in respect of pensioners retiring on or after 1/4/2004) and dearness pension (for other pensioners) respectively.”

The fixation as per this table will be subject to the provision that the revised pension, in no case, shall be lower than fifty percent of the sum of the minimum of the pay in the pay band and the grade pay thereon corresponding to the pre-revised pay scale from which the pensioner had retired. To this extent, a change would need to be allowed from the fitment shown in the fitment table.

2. Implementation of Fitment Benefit
The above Recommendations the Commission had been accepted by the Govt, with modifications, that in the case of all past pensioners, the fixation of pension shall be based on a multiplication factor of 1.86 plus a fitment benefit of 40% of the basic pension.
This formula is said to be consistent with fitment benefit being allowed in case of the existing employees. The concordance Table converts the old pension by multiplying by this factor of 2.26 to arrive at the new pension

For serving employees, basic pay is increased by a factor of 1.86 and the amount arrived at is rounded off to the next 10 rupee and appropriate Grade Pay is added as fitment benefit. While accepting the Recommendations the Govt. improved the grade pay in scales-S19,20,21,22,24,25,26,27,28 and 29, the maximum increase being in S28,29,and 30 to the tune of Rs. 1000.


Though the grade pay is said to be equal to about 40 per cent of the maximum pay of the pre-revised grade of the employee, in some cases particularly at higher levels, the ratio has increased to over 49%.
For pensioners, while applying the 1.86 factor, the multiplied amount is rounded off to the next rupee and not to the next 10 rupee. As fitment benefit only 40 per cent of the basic pension is added instead of half of the corresponding grade pay, as is done in the case of serving employees.


3. Method of implementation
For serving employees the pay fixation has been done as per Table attached to the Dept. of Expenditure O.M. No.F1/1/2008-1C dt. 30.08.08. This table gives the pay in the pay band and the grade pay corresponding to each stage of each of the pre-revised scales.

Pensioners who had retired during the period 1.106 to 30.08.08 were initially denied the benefit of pension as 50% of the last emoluments, but subsequently this was amended in Dec 08 extending this benefit to them also.

As far as pre-2006 pensioners are concerned, the original O.M of 1.9.08 was substantially altered thro’ O.M dt.3.10.08 and 14.10.08 which totally changed the meaning of para 4.2 of O.M dt 1.9.08 and reduced the pension. As per the modified instructions for determination of pension/family pension, the minimum of the Pay Band and Grade Pay is taken into account, instead of Minimum of the pay in the pay band plus grade pay.


However for pensioners in Pay scales above S-31 and above adequate protection has been give by the 50% formula of the replacement scale, there being no pay band.

4. How these changes affect the pre-2006 pensioners.
i) In the revised scheme of Pay Bands and Grade Pay basic pay has 2 parts,
1.pay in the pay band and 2. grade pay.
It is now emphasized that only the grade pay determines the status of the post. The Commission in para 5.1.47 had recommended grant of pension not less than half of the pay in the pay band plus grade pay corresponding to the pre-revised scale, but this has been modified by O.M of 3.10.08 and in many cases the old pension x 2.26 works out to better than the modified para4.2

ii) Not considering half of the grade pay, for fitment benefit for past pensioners, is a great injustice and needs to be rectified by the Govt. for the following reasons
1. Grade pay is the only identification for the post from which the pensioner retired, since 6-7 pay scales are getting merged in one pay band and for future reference, including the next Pay Commission one must identify himself with the post from which he retired and the pay of that post.
2. Fitment benefit is in the form of grade pay(para1.2.3 of 6CPC Report) and since the grade pay is always higher than the 40% fitment benefit extended to the pensioners, that should be substituted by half of grade pay to have similar parity with the new pensioners
3. Fitment benefit as grade pay is worked out as about 40% of the max. of the pre-revised scale. For employees in all stages of a pay scale for any post, this is uniformly given as a constant amount of Grade Pay, but for pensioners this continues as a percentage of their pension. e.g an officer at the lowest stage of S-29 will get a fitment benefit of Rs.10,000 (G.P) ,and consequently Rs.5000 as GP component in his pension, whereas a pre-2006 pensioner who retired from this level will get only 0.4 x basic pension as fitment benefit which works out to only Rs.3680
4. Though the pay in the pay band is supposed to be 1.86 times old pay, in many cases this is much higher (even upto 2.62 times old pay for S-28) Added to this is the increase in grade pay over 40% of pre-revised scale. The net effect is that the total fitment benefit given to the present employees, far exceeds the 2.26 factor applied for pensioners as can be seen from the Table 1 attached. In fact the fitment benefit for some employees work out to be over 145% as against 40% granted to past pensioners, thus increasing the disparity in pension between 2 types of pensioners retiring from the same post ,but on different dates.
5. Table attached, will indicate the loss suffered by the pensioners because of denial of 50% of grade pay as fitment benefit. It may be seen from this Table that almost all the scales are adversely affected by this approach. These are recurring losses which get compounded with the addition of D.R

5.Need for reference to Anomalies Committee
The terms of reference of the Anomalies Committee constituted by the Govt. vide notification dt12.01.09 says that ”where the official and staff side are of the opinion that any recommendation is in contravention of the principle or policy enunciated by the Sixth central Pay commission itself, without the Commission assigning any reason” that could be treated as an anomaly.
In this case, as mentioned in para 2. above the Commission had recorded that even for pensioners
“ it will be necessary to allow the same fitment benefit as is being recommended for the existing Government employees.”
Since this principle has not been adhered to in the 40% fitment benefit for pensioners and Grade pay fitment benefit for the employees, this becomes an Anomaly, fit to be referred to the Anomalies Committee.

6. Suggested Solution
Notional fixation of pay of the pre-2006 pensioners in the new pay bands using the fitment Table given in Dept. of Expenditure O.M No. F1/1/2008-1C dt.30.08.08 and granting 50% of the revised basic pay (pay in the pay band +grade pay) as pension will redress the grievances of the pensioners and also ensure adherence to the principle enshrined in the Commission’s Report.

RPGoswami
18-10-2012, 10:23 PM
Thanks to Mr.Natarajan for clarifying the position and raisins the prospect of a Brighter Diwaali,maybe

RKPATHAK
19-10-2012, 12:29 PM
For pensioners the basic pension is multiplied by 2.26 not by 1.86

sundarar
20-10-2012, 06:40 AM
Thanks to Mr.Natarajan for clarifying the position and raisins the prospect of a Brighter Diwaali,maybe

I think the aforesaid post must have been intended for posting under `Injustice' Thread, in reply to Respected Shri VNji's post therein.

Further, as brought out in earlier posts under this thread, 40% of max. of pre-revised scales upto S-21 have been
granted as fitment benefit for pre-2006 pensioners through para 4.1 of DOP&PW OM dated 1.9.2008..

In the event of 50% of Grade Pay as fitment benefit in addition to the revised amount derived by application of multiplication factor of 1.86 over pre-revised basic pension, the said revision of basic pension from 1.1.2006 may be
meeting the full parity requirement, as recommended by 5th CPC for future revision. However, the SCOVA Meeting Minutes dated 10.10.2012 indicates as follows:

"Agenda item No. (3)- Same fitment benefit to Pre-2006 pensioners as recommended and implemented in respect of serving
employees by the VI CPC Parity between Past and Future Pensioners.

SCOVA decision: With regard to the issue of same benefit to pre-2006 pensioners as given to serving employees by 6th CPC and parity between past and future pensioners, the members were informed that CAT in its judgement on 1.11.2011 had dismissed the issue".

ybhaskar23
21-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Dear Mr Sundarar,

Could you please clarify as to what is the minimum of the pay scale being referred to by SCOVA
based on which the new pension will be calculated in terms of the PR Cat judgement.

Are there any pay scales other than pay bands in the sixth cpc resolutions other than those pay scales specified
beyond pb4.

Request clarification please






I think the aforesaid post must have been intended for posting under `Injustice' Thread, in reply to Respected Shri VNji's post therein.

Further, as brought out in earlier posts under this thread, 40% of max. of pre-revised scales upto S-21 have been
granted as fitment benefit for pre-2006 pensioners through para 4.1 of DOP&PW OM dated 1.9.2008..

In the event of 50% of Grade Pay as fitment benefit in addition to the revised amount derived by application of multiplication factor of 1.86 over pre-revised basic pension, the said revision of basic pension from 1.1.2006 may be
meeting the full parity requirement, as recommended by 5th CPC for future revision. However, the SCOVA Meeting Minutes dated 10.10.2012 indicates as follows:

"Agenda item No. (3)- Same fitment benefit to Pre-2006 pensioners as recommended and implemented in respect of serving
employees by the VI CPC Parity between Past and Future Pensioners.

SCOVA decision: With regard to the issue of same benefit to pre-2006 pensioners as given to serving employees by 6th CPC and parity between past and future pensioners, the members were informed that CAT in its judgement on 1.11.2011 had dismissed the issue".

sundarar
21-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Dear Mr Sundarar,

Could you please clarify as to what is the minimum of the pay scale being referred to by SCOVA
based on which the new pension will be calculated in terms of the PR Cat judgement.

Are there any pay scales other than pay bands in the sixth cpc resolutions other than those pay scales specified
beyond pb4.

Request clarification please

Dear Shri YBji,

50% of the minimum of pay in the pay scale is inferred as 50% of revised pay corresponding to bottom stage of pre-revised scale.

Beyond PB-4, ie. from S-30 scale onwards, there are 5 revised pay scales upto S-34.

PB-4 starts from S-24 and ends with S-29.

Since the 5 revised pay scale retirees, viz. S-30 onwards were having 50% of minimum of pay in the pay scale corresponding to bottom stage of respective pre-revised scale as minimum revised pension w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the remaining 29 scale retirees' minimum pension is under stepping up to 50% of minimum of the revised pay scale effective from 1.1.2006. However, in the case of bottom most pre-revised scale grouped under a particular pay band, the retirees from those particular scale are already granted 50% of minimum pay in the pay scale as minimum revised pension corresponding to bottom stage of the said pre-revised scale and hence there may not be any stepping up in those particular scale retirees, viz. bottom most pre-revised scale grouped under a particular pay band.

As understood from the available input through the SCOVA 21st Meeting Minutes.
However, the implementation order out of the proposed course of action, will spell out things very clearly.

The Pensioners' Community hopes and wishes for the best amidst this auspicious period of Navratri.

ybhaskar23
21-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Dear Sundarar,
As per the logic explained by you
the revised pension of S24 and S28 scale officers would have a very little difference of just Rs 650,
as both these pre revised 5th cpc scales have a minimum pay at Rs 14300,
and their minimum 6th cpc pay would be 37400 plus either a Grade Pay of
Rs 8700 or Rs 10000.
Is this what the PR bench had ordered??
Request kindly clarify
ybr









Dear Shri YBji,

50% of the minimum of pay in the pay scale is inferred as 50% of revised pay corresponding to bottom stage of pre-revised scale.

Beyond PB-4, ie. from S-30 scale onwards, there are 5 revised pay scales upto S-34.

PB-4 starts from S-24 and ends with S-29.

Since the 5 revised pay scale retirees, viz. S-30 onwards were having 50% of minimum of pay in the pay scale corresponding to bottom stage of respective pre-revised scale as minimum revised pension w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the remaining 29 scale retirees' minimum pension is under stepping up to 50% of minimum of the revised pay scale effective from 1.1.2006. However, in the case of bottom most pre-revised scale grouped under a particular pay band, the retirees from those particular scale are already granted 50% of minimum pay in the pay scale as minimum revised pension corresponding to bottom stage of the said pre-revised scale and hence there may not be any stepping up in those particular scale retirees, viz. bottom most pre-revised scale grouped under a particular pay band.

As understood from the available input through the SCOVA 21st Meeting Minutes.
However, the implementation order out of the proposed course of action, will spell out things very clearly.

The Pensioners' Community hopes and wishes for the best amidst this auspicious period of Navratri.

vnatarajan
22-10-2012, 03:47 AM
No confusion pl.

BETWEEN THE S24 AND S28, ONE MAY NOT HOPE FOR "STEPPING UP" WRT THE MPB OF 37400. (what Shri YB has stated is ok- difference here will be only in GP)

SUCH COINCDENCE MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR THE OTHER PAY SCALES INCLUDED IN THE PAY BAND 4- AS THEIR RESPECTIVE MINIMUMS MAY NOT BE SAME AS 14300.

TAKING THE CASE OF S29:

When STEPPING UP is prescribed as recoded in SCOVA record, it can not be simply beating around the bush, by sticking to the MINIMUM OF THE PAY BAND blunder !

PR CAT and the Petitioner Pensioners have made clear what is MPPB based pension and MPB based pension.

FORMER(MPPB) IS WITH MINIMUM "CORRESPONDENCE" TO THE PRE-REVISED PAY SCALE FROM WHICH THE PRE 2006 PENSIONER RETIRED , wheras the latter is WITHOUT ANY SUCH CORRESPONDENCE BUT THE revised pension shall be with respect to the MINIMUM OF THE PAY BAND "IRRESPECTIVE OF' THE PRE-REVISED PAY SCALES (OF THE POSTS) FROM WHICH THE PRE 2006 PENSIONERS RETIRED FROM.

As such, we are aware, when a number of pay scales are merged to form the Pay Band, minimum/bottom of each of the pre-revised pay scales DO have a "corresponding minimum/ bottom" WITHIN the Pay Band.

For eg. Respective Bottoms of 14300 - 18300 and 18400-22400 Pre revised Pay scales can not be one and the same common "bottom" of 37400 as that of the Pay Band 4. They have respective bottoms at 37400 and 44700 as can be seen from the FITMENT TABLE annexed by MOF vide their Order of 30 08 2008.

What Sundarar has explained is quite precise.
(14300 and 18400 can not start at the same/common "bottom" of the PAY BAND 4).

Obviously one has to refer to the FITMENT table which is being done for MILITARY pensioners (as per their own derivative FITMENT TABLEs, as committed by the HP Def Com recos.

Govt may not say so in Precise words- and what they have said at SCOVA does make some sense ........., but let us wait and see.

LET US HOPE THE GOVT NOW AT LEAST RESOLVES THE ISSUE WITHOUT MUCH ADO ...... AFTER 35 OAs AND ABOUT TEN AFT / PR CAT/ CAT JUDGMENTS INVOLVING MORE THAN A DOZEN JUDGES' VERDICTS UPHOLDING THE PRE 2006 PENSIONERS' APPEALS FOR SPEEDY JUSTICE/ TRUTH!

vnatarajan

sundarar
22-10-2012, 06:44 AM
Dear Shri YBji,

Respected Shri VNji has very correctly defined with full clarity.

The Minimum Revised Pay as per Fitment Table of OM dated 1.9.2008 for S-24 and S-28 being Rs.46100 and Rs.47400 respectively, 50% of the said MRP will be Rs.23050 and Rs.23700 which stands granted already.

To be viewed from the point of 50% of MRP as per Fitment Table, up to which the stepping up is under progress, which is also in line with the spirit of the CAT Judgment dated 1.11.2011.

HAPPY VIJAYADASAMI ON 24TH OCTOBER 2012 WITH VICTORIES FOR THE GOVT AS WELL AS THE PENSIONERS COMMUNITY.

ybhaskar23
22-10-2012, 06:23 PM
Dear Mr Sundarar,

A pensioner who is at the top of fixation table for S28 drawing Rs 60340
would draw the same pension as a pensioner in S28 drawing Rs 47400.
I think even this is itself a great disparity.

The second point is that the Fixation Tables given in 30th Aug letter are meant
for serving Government Personnel actually drawing 6th cpc scales . How can this order
be made applicable to Pre Jan 2006 Personnel. A fresh implementation order should be issued which
would be applicable to Pre 2006 Pensioners fixation

The Armed Forces OROP methodology appears be to fix Pensions at the middle of the fixation tables
and not at the bottom of the fixation tables

I hope the Government also follows all rules of implementation as is being done to the Armed Forces ie
Fixing Pensions at the Middle of the Fixation Tables which also can be construed as Modified Parity.

Please Clarify

Happy Dusshera to all G connect members

ybr







Dear Sundarar,
As per the logic explained by you
the revised pension of S24 and S28 scale officers would have a very little difference of just Rs 650,
as both these pre revised 5th cpc scales have a minimum pay at Rs 14300,
and their minimum 6th cpc pay would be 37400 plus either a Grade Pay of
Rs 8700 or Rs 10000.
Is this what the PR bench had ordered??
Request kindly clarify
ybr

vnatarajan
23-10-2012, 05:54 AM
Shri Sundaarar appears to be away.

I have a few points to make out;

1.Disparity at the Maximum: True. Pre 2006 S30 pensioners pointed out this fact in PATNA CAT and though the case was dismissed, the judges opined that this point/ juniors drawing more pension than seniors (subject to other conditions like QS etc being comparable ) needs to be considered by the Govt. However issue in this forum's discussion was always wrt DISPARITY AT THE MINIMUM - ie not protecting thE MINIMUM GUARANTEED PENSION of the old pensioners.

2.FITMENT TABLE (not fixation table) is nothing but a concordant table like any previous pay commission follow ups and the explanation that it is exclusive for employees in service is ridiculous. To arrive at the minimum/ bottom of each of the pre-revised pay scale, one has to refer to this!. This has been done for TRISANKU pensioners who reired rafter 1 1 2006 before the actual cpc orders were issued on say 1 9 2008/ 2 9 2008. The Fitment Table was issued by MOF with their order on 30th Aug 2008, one day before the DOPPW's Order of OM of 1st Sept 2008. Then how come one can not refer to this? The only official document that can be referred to arrive at the MINIMUM OF THE PAY IN THE PAY BAND is the fitment table(s) for both Civil and Military Pensioners. One has to read the AFT judgment of Lt Cdr Avtar Singh/ VK Jain vs UOI dt 14 Sept 2010 to understand how this has been explained and JUDGED by the Hon Judges . Even the PR CAT in para 27 of the 1 11 2011 judgment on OA 655/ 2010 have pointed out that the old pensioners can not be denied the minimum of the pay of the revised pay scale(now within the pay band) corresponding to the prerevised pay scale of the post from which they retired. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF CORRECT MODIFIED PARITY.

It is to be noted, that Old Pensioners are not demanding POINT TO POINT PARITY OR FULL PARITY. They have asked for only MINIMUUM GUARANTEED PENSION which has to be equatable on either side of revision for the given QS, irrespective of date of separation. For eg MGP of S29 is 27350 for 18400 basic and not 23700 ! FITMENT TABLE IS RELEVANT TO KNOW THE "MINIMUM FIGURE" CORRESPONDING TO 18400 BASIC WITHIN THE PAY BAND 4 WHICH IS 44700.

No old pensioner is demanding FITMENT OR FIXATION ON POINT TO POINT BASIS.

Even otherwise the figure can be arrived at by calculating the prescribed formula.

IT IS FOR THE GOVT /DOPPW TO ISSUE SUITABLE ORDERS BY WAY OF "APPROPRIATE ACTION" AS THEY COMMITTED IN THE RECENT SCOVA MEETING (21 09 2012).

3.AF/ SERVICES FITMENT TABLES ARE DERIVATIVES OF THE CIVILIAN FITMENT TABLES AND FORMULATION IS BASED ON 3% INCREMENTALS EVERY YEAR, STAGEWISE. They are complimentary.

UNLESS THE MINIMUMS/BOTTOMS ARE IDENTIFIED WITHIN THE PAY BAND (NOT AT THE MINIMUM OF THE PAY BAND) WRT EACH OF THE PRE-REVISED PAY SCALES MERGED IN ANY PAY BAND , JUSTICE CAN NOT BE ENSURED FOR ARRIVING AT THE MINIMUM GUARNATEED PENSION, WHEREVER THE SAME HAS SUFFERED A DIMINITION.

HAPPY DUSSERAH/ DIWALI,

vnatarajan

ybhaskar23
23-10-2012, 10:32 AM
Dear Sri VN Ji

As per the Armed Forces info ( Maj Navdeep Blog ) the minimum Pension for pre 2006 pensioners is as under

sl rank Grade Pay Minimum Pension Minimum Pension ( Armed Forces Pension minus 3000)
for Armed Forces applicable to civilians
1 LT 5400 13500 10500
2 capt 5600 15350 12350
3 maj 6600 18250 15250
4 Lt Col 8000 26265 23265
5 Col 8700 27795 24795
6 Brig 8900 29145 26145
7 Maj Gen 10000 30350 27350

The figures for Civilians for Minimum Pension for GP 5400 and above should be exactly as those shown above,
no matter what fitment tables are used.

Please Clarify this point

Thanks

YBR








Shri Sundaarar appears to be away.

I have a few points to make out;

1.Disparity at the Maximum: True. Pre 2006 S30 pensioners pointed out this fact in PATNA CAT and though the case was dismissed, the judges opined that this point/ juniors drawing more pension than seniors (subject to other conditions like QS etc being comparable ) needs to be considered by the Govt. However issue in this forum's discussion was always wrt DISPARITY AT THE MINIMUM - ie not protecting thE MINIMUM GUARANTEED PENSION of the old pensioners.

2.FITMENT TABLE (not fixation table) is nothing but a concordant table like any previous pay commission follow ups and the explanation that it is exclusive for employees in service is ridiculous. To arrive at the minimum/ bottom of each of the pre-revised pay scale, one has to refer to this!. This has been done for TRISANKU pensioners who reired rafter 1 1 2006 before the actual cpc orders were issued on say 1 9 2008/ 2 9 2008. The Fitment Table was issued by MOF with their order on 30th Aug 2008, one day before the DOPPW's Order of OM of 1st Sept 2008. Then how come one can not refer to this? The only official document that can be referred to arrive at the MINIMUM OF THE PAY IN THE PAY BAND is the fitment table(s) for both Civil and Military Pensioners. One has to read the AFT judgment of Lt Cdr Avtar Singh/ VK Jain vs UOI dt 14 Sept 2010 to understand how this has been explained and JUDGED by the Hon Judges . Even the PR CAT in para 27 of the 1 11 2011 judgment on OA 655/ 2010 have pointed out that the old pensioners can not be denied the minimum of the pay of the revised pay scale(now within the pay band) corresponding to the prerevised pay scale of the post from which they retired. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF CORRECT MODIFIED PARITY.

It is to be noted, that Old Pensioners are not demanding POINT TO POINT PARITY OR FULL PARITY. They have asked for only MINIMUUM GUARANTEED PENSION which has to be equatable on either side of revision for the given QS, irrespective of date of separation. For eg MGP of S29 is 27350 for 18400 basic and not 23700 ! FITMENT TABLE IS RELEVANT TO KNOW THE "MINIMUM FIGURE" CORRESPONDING TO 18400 BASIC WITHIN THE PAY BAND 4 WHICH IS 44700.

No old pensioner is demanding FITMENT OR FIXATION ON POINT TO POINT BASIS.

Even otherwise the figure can be arrived at by calculating the prescribed formula.

IT IS FOR THE GOVT /DOPPW TO ISSUE SUITABLE ORDERS BY WAY OF "APPROPRIATE ACTION" AS THEY COMMITTED IN THE RECENT SCOVA MEETING (21 09 2012).

3.AF/ SERVICES FITMENT TABLES ARE DERIVATIVES OF THE CIVILIAN FITMENT TABLES AND FORMULATION IS BASED ON 3% INCREMENTALS EVERY YEAR, STAGEWISE. They are complimentary.

UNLESS THE MINIMUMS/BOTTOMS ARE IDENTIFIED WITHIN THE PAY BAND (NOT AT THE MINIMUM OF THE PAY BAND) WRT EACH OF THE PRE-REVISED PAY SCALES MERGED IN ANY PAY BAND , JUSTICE CAN NOT BE ENSURED FOR ARRIVING AT THE MINIMUM GUARNATEED PENSION, WHEREVER THE SAME HAS SUFFERED A DIMINITION.

HAPPY DUSSERAH/ DIWALI,

vnatarajan

vnatarajan
23-10-2012, 08:11 PM
If the two sets of pay scales are identical - one to one, what is menioned can be true. i WAS NOT AN ACCOUNTS PERSON - NOR I HAVE ALL DATA!

I CAN ONLY SAY ABOUT S29 SCALE WHICH IS EXACTLY SAME FOR BOTH CIVIL AND MILITARY (BUT FOR MSP).
(FIGURES 30350 FOR PRE 2006 RETD MAJ GENS /EQUALS AND 27350 FOR CIVILIAN PRE2006 S29 ARE OK.).

SO WAS THE S30 VS LT GENS.
(BEFORE THE NEW SCALE AND AFTER THE NEW SCALE ALSO)

In other cases, where they cd be compared to some extent , the Miliatry Scales were kept a shade lesser but when Rank Pay is merged, such sales go higher than Civilians.

NOW WITH RANK PAY CASE JUDGEMNT IN THEIR FAVOUR, EVEN THE MAJOR'S SCALE MAY HAVE TO COME TO PB4!

vnatarajan

Some info on Indian Army Pay Structure:
(Pl read data seriatum)

Pay Structure Indian Army
Indian Army Ranks; Basic Pay Structure ; MSP
General 90,000 rupees plus Grade Pay - NIL (fixed) NIL
VCOS / Army Commanders 80,000 rupees plus Grade Pay - NIL (fixed) NIL
33% (1/3) Lieutenant General (by seniority) 75,000-80,000 rupees (HAG+) upto 80,000 rupees plus Grade Pay - NIL NIL
Lieutenant General 67,000-79,000 rupees (HAG) upto 79,000 rupees plus Grade Pay - NIL NIL
Major General 37,400-67,000 rupees (PB-4) plus Grade Pay of 10,000 rupees NIL
Brigadier 37,400-67,000 rupees (PB-4) plus Grade Pay of 8,900 rupees 6000 rupees
Colonel 37,400-67,000 rupees (PB-4) plus Grade Pay of 8,700 rupees 6000 rupees
Lieutenant Colonel 37,400-67,000 rupees (PB-4) plus Grade Pay of 8,000 rupees 6000 rupees
Major 15,600-39,100 rupees (PB-3) plus Grade Pay of 6,600 rupees 6,000 rupees
Captain 15,600-39,100 rupees (PB-3) plus Grade Pay of 6,100 rupees 6,000 rupees
Lieutenant 15,600-39,100 rupees (PB-3) plus Grade Pay of 5,400 rupees 6,000 rupees

sundarar
31-10-2012, 06:35 AM
Dear Mr Sundarar,

A pensioner who is at the top of fixation table for S28 drawing Rs 60340
would draw the same pension as a pensioner in S28 drawing Rs 47400.
I think even this is itself a great disparity.

The second point is that the Fixation Tables given in 30th Aug letter are meant
for serving Government Personnel actually drawing 6th cpc scales . How can this order
be made applicable to Pre Jan 2006 Personnel. A fresh implementation order should be issued which
would be applicable to Pre 2006 Pensioners fixation

The Armed Forces OROP methodology appears be to fix Pensions at the middle of the fixation tables
and not at the bottom of the fixation tables

I hope the Government also follows all rules of implementation as is being done to the Armed Forces ie
Fixing Pensions at the Middle of the Fixation Tables which also can be construed as Modified Parity.

Please Clarify

Happy Dusshera to all G connect members

ybr

Dear Shri YBji,

If a pensioner was drawing maximum of the scale S28 at the time of retirement prior to 1.1.2006, he will get 50% of 10 months' average emoluments as his basic pension.
If we multiply the said basic pension with 2.26 MF, the revised basic pension under para 4.1 of OM dated 1.9.2008 will be more than what a similar S28 retiree at minimum of the pre-revised scale S28 prior to 1.1.2006 may get w.e.f. 1.1.2006.

The significance is attached to 50% of minimum of the revised pay as MINIMUM REVISED PENSION. If a S28 retiree is already getting 50% of minimum of the revised pay as MINIMUM REVISED PENSION, there can't be any stepping up further, which is my point.

As far as minimum revised pension is concerned, it is actually, 50% of minimum of the pre-revised scale from which a pensioner had retired, getting revised from time to time. Naturally, 50% of corresponding revised pay only can become as MINIMUM REVISED PENSION. To that extent, the fitment tables meant for serving employees do have a definite role to play to determine the quantum of 50% of Minimum Revised Pay, for payment as Minimum Revised Pension.

A Fresh implementation order is awaited as decided during SCOVA 21st Meeting on 27.9.2012.

We may have to wait for a while till then.

Gopal Krishan
28-12-2012, 03:09 PM
Dear Shri Sundararajan ji,

I am sure you must be awre that the Minister of Defence made a statement that by the end of this month orders about service personnel would be issued and payments made by the end of March, 2013. The modified parity of civilians is linked with that. According to my informal information immediately after the orders are issued by the Ministry of Defence, the Department of Pensions would also issue the ordrs.

Any information about orders from the Ministry of Defence?

Wishing a very happy and prosperous 2013.

With regards,

Gopal Krishan

RPGoswami
28-12-2012, 05:43 PM
Hope GOI will play a positive role in the prosperity of the pre-2oo6 pensioners