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R K Rao
19-02-2010, 07:45 PM
Sirs,

There was a Class I officer in my department. He died while in harness about may be 10-15 years back and his wife is getting family pension ( I think the present amount she is in receipt is Rs. 7000/-).

Thereafter, her son was appointed on compassionate grounds some 10 years back in my office. That boy took to drinking and remained absent for a long time and took ill subsequently and ultimately died in Nov 09 At the time of his death, he may be around 30 years old.

His mother thinks that she can get family pension and is claiming it. But our view is, since she herself is a family pensioner drawing more than the specified limit of Rs. 3500/-, she can not get the family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Additional information - The son (reportedly) got married twice, no children but both the marriage reportedly failed and both wives had filed court cases (authenticity not known). However, the significant point to note is that he did not declare in official records that he was married, divorced and re-married. Hence, as per the office records, his mother is the nominee and he - an unmarried person (He did not take CGHS card for his wife etc.).

With this backdrop, please advise whether mother is entitled for Family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Thanks and Regards

RKR

sundarar
20-02-2010, 06:38 PM
Sirs,

There was a Class I officer in my department. He died while in harness about may be 10-15 years back and his wife is getting family pension ( I think the present amount she is in receipt is Rs. 7000/-).

Thereafter, her son was appointed on compassionate grounds some 10 years back in my office. That boy took to drinking and remained absent for a long time and took ill subsequently and ultimately died in Nov 09 At the time of his death, he may be around 30 years old.

His mother thinks that she can get family pension and is claiming it. But our view is, since she herself is a family pensioner drawing more than the specified limit of Rs. 3500/-, she can not get the family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Additional information - The son (reportedly) got married twice, no children but both the marriage reportedly failed and both wives had filed court cases (authenticity not known). However, the significant point to note is that he did not declare in official records that he was married, divorced and re-married. Hence, as per the office records, his mother is the nominee and he - an unmarried person (He did not take CGHS card for his wife etc.).

With this backdrop, please advise whether mother is entitled for Family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Thanks and Regards

RKR

Although it is very difficult to immediately come to a conclusion in either way,
according to me, the eligible dependent family member of the deceased employee is supposed to receive the family pension.

In the instant case, a widow of the employee is very much surviving, although she is the second wife, the first wife being divorced (legally of course). It may be true that the individual has not brought on records the marriage aspects. However, if the surviving widow is able to prove with documentary and other evidences that a marriage did take place in between them after the divorce of first wife, she may have to represent with such documentary evidence to the parent department and based on the reply she can proceed further if required. As usual the parent dept. will say that there is no record to show that she is the surviving widow, still they may either take up with DOP&PW/CPAO and as far as the individual is concerned, she may even represent to the Hon. President as a last resort before seeking legal remedies. That is she has to exhaust all the available opportunities, other wise the Courts will ask her to do so. Everything is time bound.

As far as mother is concerned, the first requirement must be to prove that she was the dependent family member. But by virtue of her drawing Rs.7000/- or so as pension, she may be a family member but not dependent too. In these circumstances, the surviving widow is entitled to get the pension till her re-marriage if any at a future date. She only can represent I think.

These are just my views and I am interested to know further if any from our members.

R K Rao
20-02-2010, 08:05 PM
Shri Sundarar Sir,

I am grateful to you for the detailed reply. I think we will wait and see what happens.

Meanwhile, Sir, as you have suggested if some one else replies (and if you find time, you too , Sir) may like to clarify (at least give opinion) as to what will happen if the first wife is not legally divorced (and separated by mutual consent only) and the second wife also stands up.

Regards once again.

RKR

vnatarajan
20-02-2010, 10:12 PM
Service Book need be consulted-
Givt./ HOD may not recognise a second wife (legal or illegal) when first wife is legally not divorced.
vnatarajan

kgkacharya
21-02-2010, 01:07 AM
Sirs,

There was a Class I officer in my department. He died while in harness about may be 10-15 years back and his wife is getting family pension ( I think the present amount she is in receipt is Rs. 7000/-).

Thereafter, her son was appointed on compassionate grounds some 10 years back in my office. That boy took to drinking and remained absent for a long time and took ill subsequently and ultimately died in Nov 09 At the time of his death, he may be around 30 years old.

His mother thinks that she can get family pension and is claiming it. But our view is, since she herself is a family pensioner drawing more than the specified limit of Rs. 3500/-, she can not get the family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Additional information - The son (reportedly) got married twice, no children but both the marriage reportedly failed and both wives had filed court cases (authenticity not known). However, the significant point to note is that he did not declare in official records that he was married, divorced and re-married. Hence, as per the office records, his mother is the nominee and he - an unmarried person (He did not take CGHS card for his wife etc.).

With this backdrop, please advise whether mother is entitled for Family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Thanks and Regards

RKR
As regards grant of Family Pension to Mother of the deceased employee is concerned, kindly refer to Rule 54(13-B) of CCS [Pension} Rules 1972. According to this, Family Pension shall not be granted to a person who is already in receipt of Family Pension or is eligible therefor under any other rules of the Central Government or a State Government and/or Public Sector Undertaking/Autonomous Body/Local Fund under the Central or a State government.

R K Rao
21-02-2010, 11:19 AM
Mr. Acharya,

Thank you for the reference and reply, Sir. I shall take action accordingly.

Regards

RKR

sundarar
21-02-2010, 01:48 PM
I agree with all the views in the subject. Since the first wife is not legally divorced, she will be the eligible dependent family member but for the office records. The second marriage will then be illegal. Still, for claiming the benefits by first wife, she has to first prove that she got married legally with the deceased employee and it is up to the authorities to consider either way. On humanitarian grounds, in case everything is legal though office records does not contain the marriage affair, she can plead for help in sympathetic consideration. She has no absolute right since the records do not get her name.

Kanaujiaml
22-02-2010, 07:59 PM
My dear Rao ji. I have dealt such cases in my service period, before retirement. On the basis of the experience gained and what knowledge of rules I have got I would like to say that Marriage is a marriage whether Deptt. was informed or not or whether records are available with the Deptt. or not. Since there are two Wives involved, the Deptt. is obliged to ask the claimanants for the submission of a Succession Certificate duly issed from Court of Law. As per Sucession Law a notice has to be given by claimanant through Court which would be publicized to invite objections and only after elapsing of a period of six months, Court can decide the case. There is one more avenue available for the Wives. They can settle claims amongsts themselves with an affidevit signed before sub registrar Court and share the benifits available to a widow of a Govt. employee. In no case Mother can get the pensionary benifits except when widow is no more and there are no other claimanant. In that case only mother can get pensionary benefit and even family pension. Since she would be drawing two pensions, Dearness Relief would be admissible only on one pension. Kindly do not mind if it has hurt anybody because my intention was not that at all but to tender proper advice. Regards.



Sirs,

There was a Class I officer in my department. He died while in harness about may be 10-15 years back and his wife is getting family pension ( I think the present amount she is in receipt is Rs. 7000/-).

Thereafter, her son was appointed on compassionate grounds some 10 years back in my office. That boy took to drinking and remained absent for a long time and took ill subsequently and ultimately died in Nov 09 At the time of his death, he may be around 30 years old.

His mother thinks that she can get family pension and is claiming it. But our view is, since she herself is a family pensioner drawing more than the specified limit of Rs. 3500/-, she can not get the family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Additional information - The son (reportedly) got married twice, no children but both the marriage reportedly failed and both wives had filed court cases (authenticity not known). However, the significant point to note is that he did not declare in official records that he was married, divorced and re-married. Hence, as per the office records, his mother is the nominee and he - an unmarried person (He did not take CGHS card for his wife etc.).

With this backdrop, please advise whether mother is entitled for Family pension for the service rendered by her son.

Thanks and Regards

RKR

kgkacharya
23-02-2010, 03:48 PM
My dear Rao ji. I have dealt such cases in my service period, before retirement. On the basis of the experience gained and what knowledge of rules I have got I would like to say that Marriage is a marriage whether Deptt. was informed or not or whether records are available with the Deptt. or not. Since there are two Wives involved, the Deptt. is obliged to ask the claimanants for the submission of a Succession Certificate duly issed from Court of Law. As per Sucession Law a notice has to be given by claimanant through Court which would be publicized to invite objections and only after elapsing of a period of six months, Court can decide the case. There is one more avenue available for the Wives. They can settle claims amongsts themselves with an affidevit signed before sub registrar Court and share the benifits available to a widow of a Govt. employee. In no case Mother can get the pensionary benifits except when widow is no more and there are no other claimanant. In that case only mother can get pensionary benefit and even family pension. Since she would be drawing two pensions, Dearness Relief would be admissible only on one pension. Kindly do not mind if it has hurt anybody because my intention was not that at all but to tender proper advice. Regards.

Dear Sir,
I do not agree with the views of Shri. Kanaujiaml. I have also worked as Accounts Officer Pension for sufficient periods and dealt such cases in my department. Even though there is no record in the service book regarding marriage or name of the wife, the legally wedded wife can only claim for family pension. For that she should prove that she is the legally wedded wife of the deceased employee. According to the clarification issued by C. & A. G., New Delhi, Letter No. 211-Audit I/13-86 dated 04.03.1987, second wife is not entitled to the family pension as a legally wedded wife under the Hindu Marriage Act. An extract of the relevant advice given by the Ministry of Law in the matter is as under:
“It is specifically a question arising under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. Under Rule 54(7) of the CCS [Pension] Rules 1972, in case a deceased Govt. servant leaves behind more than one widow or a widow and eligible offspring from another widow, they are entitled to family pension in respect of that deceased Government servant. Section 11 of the Act provides that any marriage solemnized after the commencement of the Act shall be null and void and can be annulled against the other party by a decree of nullity if the same contravenes any of the conditions specified in Clauses (i), (iv) and (v) of Section 5 of the Act. Section 5(1) stipulates that marriage cannot be legally solemnized when either party has a spouse living at the time of such marriage. Therefore, any second marriage by a Hindu male after the commencement of 1955 Act during the lifetime of his first wife will be nullity and have no legal effect. Such marriage cannot be valid on the ground of any custom. In fact, a custom opposed to an expressed provision of law is of no legal effect. So under these circumstances, the second wife will not be entitled to the family pension as a legally wedded wife."
In view of the above, the pension sanctioning authority should verify who the legally wedded wife of the deceased employee is. In case it is proved that the deceased employee has married the second wife during the life time of first wife or before getting divorced with her, second wife is not eligible for family pension. There is no provision in the CCS (Pension) Rules 1972 to settle the claims by sharing the family pension amongst the wives with an affidavit signed before sub registrar Court by both of them.
Regarding grant of Family Pension to the Mother of the deceased employee, there is no provision in the CCS (Pension) Rules 1972 for granting two (2) family pensions except under Rule 54(11) where children of the Govt. servants will get two family pensions in respect of the deceased parents, in case both of them are Government servants. Govt. servants after retirement can draw two pensions [One for Civil service another for Military service] but not Family Pensions. According to Rule 7 of CCS (Pension) Rules 1972, a Govt. servant shall not earn two pensions in the same service or post at the same time or by the same continuous service.

vnatarajan
24-02-2010, 08:57 AM
Dear Interested,

As a retd HOD, refreshing my memory of a solitary case I had dealt- more or less on similar issue- I tend to agree with some clear observations of KGKAcharya above - besides the Rule Books:

"the second wife will not be entitled to the family pension as a legally wedded wife."

"the pension sanctioning authority should verify who the legally wedded wife of the deceased employee is. In case it is proved that the deceased employee has married the second wife during the life time of first wife or before getting divorced with her, second wife is not eligible for family pension".

This was exactly the conclusion our office had to arrive at to finally to settle the case.

It stood the test.

vnatarajan

Kanaujiaml
24-02-2010, 09:08 AM
My dear KG Acharya, V. Natarajan, others. Let us not fight amongsts ourselves, though I agree everyone has got right not to agree with anybodyelse. I also worked as an HOD and I hold very clear view that in case of dispute, only the Succession Law would prevail and the Court only is competent to decide the issue of succession in such cases, not any official. Regards.

R K Rao
24-02-2010, 07:35 PM
Dear Respected Shri Kanaujiml Sir, Shri Natarajan Sir, Shri Acharya Sir and Shri Sundarar Sir,

Firstly I am grateful to you all for the study and indepth analysis of the problem posed by me and enhancing my knowledge on various aspects to be considered in such complicated matters. I am grateful to you all for the time taken for this purpose and for the advice.

Secondly, I am embarassed to see that I was the reason for the argument here on this subject. I request all the above members to please not think the one is contradicting the other but only to think that they are expressing their experience and the way they came across it and therefore, their belief on the same.

My apologies to those who feel hurt due to any reason on this subject.

Thank you all of you, Sirs.

Regards

RKR

Kanaujiaml
24-02-2010, 10:08 PM
Dear Respected Shri Kanaujiml Sir, Shri Natarajan Sir, Shri Acharya Sir and Shri Sundarar Sir,

Firstly I am grateful to you all for the study and indepth analysis of the problem posed by me and enhancing my knowledge on various aspects to be considered in such complicated matters. I am grateful to you all for the time taken for this purpose and for the advice.

Secondly, I am embarassed to see that I was the reason for the argument here on this subject. I request all the above members to please not think the one is contradicting the other but only to think that they are expressing their experience and the way they came across it and therefore, their belief on the same.

My apologies to those who feel hurt due to any reason on this subject.

Thank you all of you, Sirs.

Regards

RKR

My dear Rao ji. Kindly donot be embarassed. Opinians do differ in such cases. We are all senior citizens and should act that way. If I have hurt any baody, I am ready to apologise. Warm regards.

R K Rao
24-02-2010, 10:22 PM
My dear Rao ji. Kindly donot be embarassed. Opinians do differ in such cases. We are all senior citizens and should act that way. If I have hurt any baody, I am ready to apologise. Warm regards.

Thank you, Sir.

Regards

RKR

ramanrao60
25-02-2010, 10:42 AM
dear all
these are just opinions or interpretations and are likely to be multiple in numbers
how many times we have seen judgement of lower court is upturned by higher court and even in supreme court a multiple judge bench may not give an unanimous verdict
its a way of life
what is said is important and not who said that
rgrds

kgkacharya
25-02-2010, 10:58 AM
My dear Rao ji. Kindly donot be embarassed. Opinians do differ in such cases. We are all senior citizens and should act that way. If I have hurt any baody, I am ready to apologise. Warm regards.

Respected Senior Members & Senior Citizens,
I really feel sorry if anybody hurt from my views. I apologize for the same. The article does not mean to hurt anybody. I have only brought out my experience in the subject as I have dealt several similar cases in my department.
Yours faithfully,
kgkacharya.

vnatarajan
25-02-2010, 04:33 PM
Dear Pensioners/ Family Pensioners,

Once we retire- we are all equals and homogenous- and we are all pensioiners.
You all see a half filled glass of water can be described as "Half filled glass of water" or "Half emptied glass of water" - - Filled or Emptied?... both are correct.

It may be a matter of "Provision of Rule" and "Resolution through Law & Justice". No one can be precise- but at the same time both may be correct also.

Govt Rules do not permit polygamy among Govt servants as per the Rules - and in the service book you can not have entries of more than one Legally wedded wife at any given point of time - irrespective of Religion. You may have any number of "wives" otherwise (I mean "undeclared to the Govt.") even while in Govt service and the problem comes up only when you make a submission to the Dept or some complaints are made or the "First unseparated/ undivorced Legal Wife" complains. Many VIPs who are Chief Ministers/ Ministers/ MPs etc do have more than one wife! Can we deny this fact? None have challenged them!.

All the same- when out of service - and / or the problem is beyond the realm of Rules, one may go to Courts and get a relief thru application of Law & Justice for the case of "multiple wives".

So BOTH CAN BE CORRECT- depending upon the Cases. Depends on how the "aggrieved" had taken up the case to fight and get a relief.

Pl do not mind a HEALTHY DEBATE.

vnatarajan

Kanaujiaml
25-02-2010, 08:41 PM
Respected Senior Members & Senior Citizens,
I really feel sorry if anybody hurt from my views. I apologize for the same. The article does not mean to hurt anybody. I have only brought out my experience in the subject as I have dealt several similar cases in my department.
Yours faithfully,
kgkacharya.

My dear Kgkacharya ji. As I said earlier, everybody has got right to give his/her opinian. You need not apologiese in such matters. What is important, is that we should not loose respect for each other and express our opinian politely. Regards.

Kanaujiaml
25-02-2010, 08:43 PM
dear all
these are just opinions or interpretations and are likely to be multiple in numbers
how many times we have seen judgement of lower court is upturned by higher court and even in supreme court a multiple judge bench may not give an unanimous verdict
its a way of life
what is said is important and not who said that
rgrds

Very well said. Regards.

kgkacharya
25-02-2010, 11:50 PM
Dear Pensioners/ Family Pensioners,

Once we retire- we are all equals and homogenous- and we are all pensioiners.
You all see a half filled glass of water can be described as "Half filled glass of water" or "Half emptied glass of water" - - Filled or Emptied?... both are correct.

It may be a matter of "Provision of Rule" and "Resolution through Law & Justice". No one can be precise- but at the same time both may be correct also.

Govt Rules do not permit polygamy among Govt servants as per the Rules - and in the service book you can not have entries of more than one Legally wedded wife at any given point of time - irrespective of Religion. You may have any number of "wives" otherwise (I mean "undeclared to the Govt.") even while in Govt service and the problem comes up only when you make a submission to the Dept or some complaints are made or the "First unseparated/ undivorced Legal Wife" complains. Many VIPs who are Chief Ministers/ Ministers/ MPs etc do have more than one wife! Can we deny this fact? None have challenged them!.

All the same- when out of service - and / or the problem is beyond the realm of Rules, one may go to Courts and get a relief thru application of Law & Justice for the case of "multiple wives".

So BOTH CAN BE CORRECT- depending upon the Cases. Depends on how the "aggrieved" had taken up the case to fight and get a relief.

Pl do not mind a HEALTHY DEBATE.

vnatarajan

Thank you Sir.

kgkacharya

S.C.Maheshwari
01-06-2010, 10:38 PM
Dear sirs,
There is no question of personal views interpretation or argument in this case. It is matter of rules & the law ! Rules do permit two family pensions as well as sharing between widows.In the present case ,mother even if she obtains succession certificate, is not entitled to Family pension.But if a widow/widows get succession certificate ,she or they as the case may be will get Family pension. In the absence of authentic record succession certificate is the only way out.